Hello

I'm lookling for advice regarding a diorama I have in progress for a train, set in Germany, in the mid 1940s.

I'vefound it very hard to find pictures, so hopefully people familiar with Germany can have a look and advise.

I built an embankment with a stone (or brick) reatining wall. Rail lines on top, and there will be cobblestone road and grassed area below

Someone has suggested that the train line is too close to the edge to be real, and helpfully sent me two pictures.

Any thoughts on this ? This is just two pictures of different places. I guess there would be hundreds of railway embankments built up in cities and towns in Germany, is it inaccurate to have the rail so close to the edge ? Could it be a solution to have a ledge built out from the wall, overhanging the footpath with a fence built on the edge ?

I'm also told the footpath is too narrow for Germany. Are there no narrow footpaths like this in Germany, or is a narrow path like this rare ?

pictures are below, all help will be appreciated

cheers
Neil

Neil

I would reckon from a purely structural point of view the loadings imposed at the very edge of your embankment would make it very dangerous for trains. If you imagine a line at 45 degrees out from the edge of the track, the load bubble that is imposed on the top few courses of brick and stone would be fin-nominal. Add to that the thrust of the train in motion round the bend and this would stress the stone further.

It is likely that a gap of the size you see in the pics would be necessary to allow the track and ballast plus all other forces imposed to be accommodated more safely by the thicker courses of stone further down.

Even a simple, un-loaded retaining wall has stonework that is based on a very old rule of thumb.

Divide the height of the retained earth by three. This will give you the thickness of wall needed at the base.

As you go higher, you can reduce the wall thickness gradually taking the height of earth still to be retained and dividing that by three.

You can do this progressively until the top course is thin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, one brick thick.

For example 3000mm height earth support.
Thickness of wall at base 1000mm
Thickness at 1500mm height = 500mm thick
Top 1200mm of wall = 400mm thck
Top 900mm = 300mm thick

With a train track so close to the edge of the embankment, the thickness of wall needed to support all the loads right at the edge could not be easily accommodated by these simple rules of thumb and would need a wider gap to the edge to get the 45 degree angle giving safer margins of error.

Also easier for workers to build safely.

Nige

Neil: I second Nigel's assessment. The condition you depict would be structurally unsound and also would not allow for general maintenance and rail / tie replacement.

If possible, could you move the track in some more? The space between the rails could be less than you have. I'd also suggest a low wall and/or railing at the top of the retaining wall.

Happy Modelling, -zon

Not that many raised train lines in germany. And those that exist are more often a "earthen wall" style with a inverted V shape (flatten tip of the V) rather than ones with retaining walls. This is due to the placement of many train stations on the outskirts of towns rather than in the city center so there was ample space and more often than not the train line could be on level ground making the addition of loading docks easier. If you get vertical retainer walls it is typically in the station and there the line is wider to accomodate the platforms.

You MAY be lucky thou. Both of the train stations near me have a "raised" approach and they MAY have retainer walls. I'll try to check (Work permitting - Die Amis kommen!(1)) and if they have I try to snap a few pictures. They are both pre WII but heavily modernized in the last decade.

Otherwise try Google for "Osnabrück" or "Turmbahnhof" (OS is one) since those have raised approaches for at least half the lines

(1) Grandfathers have been locked due to a tendency to "man the AAA battery" when they hear that

Hello Nige, Zontar, & Mmeier

thanks for your thoughts & advice

I wanted to use the vertical wall to give the scene dual levels, for visual interest.

The setting is stil the approach to a large railway station, in an urban, or built up area, similar to the smaller photo. This would be a low speed track, very close to the station.

I'm following your advice on the track placement, have already started.

I'm lifting the left hand rail track and relaying it inwards so that it conforms to the period photos.

The right track will remain in place as its the physical edge of the diorama, and the vertical edge on that side has already been filled & sanded smooth as its the back edge and will be painted (probably black, as will each end) in reality there could be 2 or 3 tracks further to the right. At the opposite end this track veers slightly to the right, and I have trimmed it at an angle, to the base edges & corner to enhance the 'cut off' aspect.

I guess I'll need a fence too, thats a little harder.

Also Mmeier any comments on footpaths ? Is a narrow (1 metre wide) footpath unlikely ? It may seem a silly question, but just want an opinion. I've been to plenty of places that had narrow footpaths, is this typical or rare for your country ?

If anyone wants I'll post more pictures when the track has been relaid, ballasted & painted

cheers
Neil

In many places there is no footpath. The rails are almost level to the ground and workers use normal access roads. Work on major lines is typically done one spur at a time.

Bigger Bridges typically have a wide footpath, big enough for a man and a bicycle. Those where often attached "on the outside" with the bridge structure between footpath and rails

Terciary railroad, access to a small power plant

Same bridge

The bridge is IIRC from the 1940s

Big one, see the walkway separation

Another one

Those two are build "as they where before 1945"

Some more secondary lines