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REVIEW
ICM Soviet Hrose Artillery Team
bill_c
Campaigns Administrator
Joined: January 09, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 01:37 PM UTC
Jim Rae takes a look at another new release from ICM - Soviet Regimental Artillery Horse Transport (1943-1945) in 1/35th Scale.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 10:39 PM UTC
Being an artillery officer with horse riding experiences I have seen this reinforced boots, or add-on's, before. It is worn at the inside of the team and protects the riders leg from being squeezed since the beam of the limber is not fixed in such a way that movement between limber beam and horse riders is impossible.
You may find more about this if one looks at carriages which where used in combination with riders in stead of coachmen.
You may find more about this if one looks at carriages which where used in combination with riders in stead of coachmen.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 10:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Being an artillery officer with horse riding experiences I have seen this reinforced boots, or add-on's, before. It is worn at the inside of the team and protects the riders leg from being squeezed since the beam of the limber is not fixed in such a way that movement between limber beam and horse riders is impossible.
Thank you VERY much!
Now you mention it, I seem to remember seeing something similar on Royal Horse Artillery riders. Would this also be correct?
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 11:33 PM UTC
It's the same!
So, do not sand it away! It might look like the leather part in the old stile German cavalery pants, partly shiny, partly rough!
I ordered my own set today at Moduni.com. These people do have them in stock already.
So, do not sand it away! It might look like the leather part in the old stile German cavalery pants, partly shiny, partly rough!
I ordered my own set today at Moduni.com. These people do have them in stock already.
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 08:03 AM UTC
Greatmodels here in the States has them, and only two are left, so don't hesitate if you're hot to have these.
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 09:41 AM UTC
Jim do the horses have any texture on them as the pictures do not make that clear one way or the other? This looks to be a very good kit and looks to be fair competition with the other version of this that was released, but the box art looks very poor for something that is supposed to attract customers.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim do the horses have any texture on them as the pictures do not make that clear one way or the other? This looks to be a very good kit and looks to be fair competition with the other version of this that was released, but the box art looks very poor for something that is supposed to attract customers.
Good couple of questions and points.
No, there is little texture on the horses, which, going by my comments in the Review, leaves me to refer back to my thoughts about wood texture. For this kind of horse, they were a lot 'shaggier' than what we'd see in the West - think 'Pit Ponies' )apart from size) and you'd get an idea what I mean. In 1/35th scale, IMO, they'd be invisible, and, unless you were to 'roughen' the surface carefully, it could look OTT.
The boxart is, IMO, poor. I didn't bring it up in the Review as i've already brought it up with ICM. It DOESN'T, under any circumstances reflect the extraordinary high product within the box and that, at point of sale, is a REAL pity.
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefJoined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:54 AM UTC
Thank you for your quick reply and thinking about what you have said regarding texture makes sense, but I suppose it is like the arguements over zimmerit when scaled down you would not really see it but you expect it to be there. I will say that comparing the horses to pit ponies is very good as regards appearance as the very few pictures I have seen of Panje horses show very hairy ponies/horses which I assume is due the the cold climate.
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 09:35 PM UTC
Dear all, about the texture.
One should consider the time of year. In the summer, well treated horses ( a military used horse was a sportsman in its art and represented a high value. The German army had veterinarians at battalion level !) are shiny and their skin does not show much texture on 1/35 scale. In winter, the hair lenght increased and the skin become more mat. By using oil paints, one can obtain both texture and the semi shiny appereance of well treated horses. The Historex had a nice manual for painting horses.
If you look at the trailer of Steven Spielberg's new film "War horse" one can get a pritty good impression about the horse in a military role..
Furthermore, one should differentiate between the larger races of horse, used in wagon trains and artillery units and the use of seized smaller horses from local farmers, as most ponies were, to fill up gaps of lost army horses.
One should consider the time of year. In the summer, well treated horses ( a military used horse was a sportsman in its art and represented a high value. The German army had veterinarians at battalion level !) are shiny and their skin does not show much texture on 1/35 scale. In winter, the hair lenght increased and the skin become more mat. By using oil paints, one can obtain both texture and the semi shiny appereance of well treated horses. The Historex had a nice manual for painting horses.
If you look at the trailer of Steven Spielberg's new film "War horse" one can get a pritty good impression about the horse in a military role..
Furthermore, one should differentiate between the larger races of horse, used in wagon trains and artillery units and the use of seized smaller horses from local farmers, as most ponies were, to fill up gaps of lost army horses.
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefJoined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 01:00 AM UTC
I always understood that Panje horses were used as they could get there when nothing else could including other breeds of horse. I also believe that Panje horses are not a breed but is the name the Germans gave them which has stuck. The horses were not all retained after the worst of the weather was over and units returned to primarily mechanised transport, with some of the horses being used for food the others let loose. All of that really relates to the horses in German service with my knowledge of Russian use being very little, but if the Germans found them to be the right tool for the job then I would have thought the same would be true for the Russians.
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 03:57 AM UTC
To have an explanation about the word 'panje', please, look at:
http://militaryanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/02/panje_19.html
But nevertheless, both MiniArt and ICM have followed a new path and go for models of the over 8 million horses, used during WW 2.
During the Stalingrad battles more than 50,000 horses were killed and during the German retreat from the east in May 1944, 30,000 were killed to avoid later use by the Soviet forces.
Podzun-Pallas Verlag has published a informative (German written) book: Kavellerie der Wehrmacht, ISBN 3-89555-310-7.
Also, the Dutch language book 'Het paardenvolk in mei 1940", ISBN 90.6707.074.2 may open some views on horses used in an artillery role. Since the physics are the same for all armies, both books may help you to super detail the models of ICM and MiniArt.
So, fellow-modellers, who's the first to show his atempts with this model on this site???
http://militaryanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/02/panje_19.html
But nevertheless, both MiniArt and ICM have followed a new path and go for models of the over 8 million horses, used during WW 2.
During the Stalingrad battles more than 50,000 horses were killed and during the German retreat from the east in May 1944, 30,000 were killed to avoid later use by the Soviet forces.
Podzun-Pallas Verlag has published a informative (German written) book: Kavellerie der Wehrmacht, ISBN 3-89555-310-7.
Also, the Dutch language book 'Het paardenvolk in mei 1940", ISBN 90.6707.074.2 may open some views on horses used in an artillery role. Since the physics are the same for all armies, both books may help you to super detail the models of ICM and MiniArt.
So, fellow-modellers, who's the first to show his atempts with this model on this site???
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 04:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
To have an explanation about the word 'panje', please, look at:
http://militaryanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/02/panje_19.html
But nevertheless, both MiniArt and ICM have followed a new path and go for models of the over 8 million horses, used during WW 2.
During the Stalingrad battles more than 50,000 horses were killed and during the German retreat from the east in May 1944, 30,000 were killed to avoid later use by the Soviet forces.
Podzun-Pallas Verlag has published a informative (German written) book: Kavellerie der Wehrmacht, ISBN 3-89555-310-7.
Also, the Dutch language book 'Het paardenvolk in mei 1940", ISBN 90.6707.074.2 may open some views on horses used in an artillery role. Since the physics are the same for all armies, both books may help you to super detail the models of ICM and MiniArt.
So, fellow-modellers, who's the first to show his atempts with this model on this site???
Have you seen my build thread on the dio forum called"another105"? I am scratchbuilding a limber and horse arty team. Not Russian but horse drawn all the same.
J
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 08:11 AM UTC
Now I have!
I am going to use the gun from the Italeri Studebaker set, upgraded with the Eduard etch set.
Parallel I will do the MiniArt set as well.
As a gunner, these models will not be in their boxes for too long. But I have to empty my bench first!!!!!!!!!! I am suffering from the modeller's collection disease as well.
Your German artillery team just looks great. Compliments.
Do you got info from Joachim Engelmann's books 1. German Heavy Field Artillery and 2. German Light Field Artillery ? These books are full of horse drawn guns. You can see gun teams all over the war, some of them having 4 couples of real heavy draught horses. You must love these books!
But as I stated before, based on the human and animal physics, these pictures will be a source of inspiration to all horse drawn items.
Maybe we will see, finally, more horses with this quality standards. Almost 60% of the German transport capacity was based on horses all over the war.
I am going to use the gun from the Italeri Studebaker set, upgraded with the Eduard etch set.
Parallel I will do the MiniArt set as well.
As a gunner, these models will not be in their boxes for too long. But I have to empty my bench first!!!!!!!!!! I am suffering from the modeller's collection disease as well.
Your German artillery team just looks great. Compliments.
Do you got info from Joachim Engelmann's books 1. German Heavy Field Artillery and 2. German Light Field Artillery ? These books are full of horse drawn guns. You can see gun teams all over the war, some of them having 4 couples of real heavy draught horses. You must love these books!
But as I stated before, based on the human and animal physics, these pictures will be a source of inspiration to all horse drawn items.
Maybe we will see, finally, more horses with this quality standards. Almost 60% of the German transport capacity was based on horses all over the war.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 08:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Now I have!
I am going to use the gun from the Italeri Studebaker set, upgraded with the Eduard etch set.
Parallel I will do the MiniArt set as well.
As a gunner, these models will not be in their boxes for too long. But I have to empty my bench first!!!!!!!!!! I am suffering from the modeller's collection disease as well.
Your German artillery team just looks great. Compliments.
Do you got info from Joachim Engelmann's books 1. German Heavy Field Artillery and 2. German Light Field Artillery ? These books are full of horse drawn guns. You can see gun teams all over the war, some of them having 4 couples of real heavy draught horses. You must love these books!
But as I stated before, based on the human and animal physics, these pictures will be a source of inspiration to all horse drawn items.
Maybe we will see, finally, more horses with this quality standards. Almost 60% of the German transport capacity was based on horses all over the war.
I did not see these books but I got a pretty good set of ref pics from the internet. There is also a cool thread on the axishistory website that has hundreds of pics of horses in the Wehrmacht.
It would be nice to make a horse drawn 150mm cannon with the 2 parts!
J
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