Drive a man to drinking!Okay, got that off my chest. Getting back to work.
Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
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Mini Art Buildings...Need an ear!
MSGsummit
Joined: November 16, 2002
KitMaker: 751 posts
Armorama: 545 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 08:16 AM UTC
Maybe I need a shoulder as well! I am currently in the process of building MiniArt's French Street.......my first mini art building. Now I have read these things are challenging but man!!!!!!!! The thing fights you every step of the way! Scribing the really thick plastic is a pain, then gluing the pieces together is a lesson in patience itself. Not to mention all the gaps.....some of them quite large. Then there is the instructions....if I would have followed those things instead of watching the assembly video on MiniArts site, my project would be in a serious world of hurt! Drive a man to drinking!
Okay, got that off my chest. Getting back to work.
Drive a man to drinking!Okay, got that off my chest. Getting back to work.
Big-John
Joined: August 12, 2010
KitMaker: 731 posts
Armorama: 711 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 08:23 AM UTC
Hey art, want to trade jobs? I'm trying to assemble some dragone 251 tracks and keep them workable. I can barly see them, let along keep glue from places its not suposed to go.
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
Armorama: 753 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 08:40 AM UTC
hi Art
there was a Miniart Dio Campaign not too long ago that was inspired by Pat to help out with these tricky kits. lots of good info and tips, here's the link to the campaign thread:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/143226
hang in there, they can turn out quite nice. cheers, bd.
there was a Miniart Dio Campaign not too long ago that was inspired by Pat to help out with these tricky kits. lots of good info and tips, here's the link to the campaign thread:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/143226
hang in there, they can turn out quite nice. cheers, bd.
bmikk1
Joined: February 15, 2008
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 136 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 08:48 AM UTC
Second what Bruce said above, I learned more helpful tips from reading through this campaign than any other source.
MSGsummit
Joined: November 16, 2002
KitMaker: 751 posts
Armorama: 545 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 09:03 AM UTC
Thanks for the link guys. The building isn't turning out too bad right now. I just needed a good cry ( all out of beer ).
These mini art buildings are a lot of work though .
Big -John, I don,t envy you with those tracks brother.
These mini art buildings are a lot of work though .
Big -John, I don,t envy you with those tracks brother.
Big-John
Joined: August 12, 2010
KitMaker: 731 posts
Armorama: 711 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 09:17 AM UTC
LOL, Ok Art, I thought it was worth a try. Hang in there buddy, you can do it.
parrot
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 1,607 posts
Armorama: 1,581 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 10:06 AM UTC
Hey Art,
I hear ya.To begin with,the first and only building I bought had a completly different building in the box.I found the trimming and fit a real pain.Most of it went back in the box.I'll take ceramic over them anytime.On the upside there were 2 sprues of great things like railings,window frames,street lamps,etc.that I have been using for my own scratch buildings.Considering they are pretty cheap I still got my moneys worth.
I hear ya.To begin with,the first and only building I bought had a completly different building in the box.I found the trimming and fit a real pain.Most of it went back in the box.I'll take ceramic over them anytime.On the upside there were 2 sprues of great things like railings,window frames,street lamps,etc.that I have been using for my own scratch buildings.Considering they are pretty cheap I still got my moneys worth.
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 10:43 AM UTC
They are tricky- especially the first one you build 
but if you persevere and take your time they are worth it. I know some some modellers who build vac form planes! At least with the buildings there is room for some margin of error. I've built about ten vacuform buildings between Miniart and a Polish Company called TM
True ceramic buildings are easier to put together but they are heavier and more expensive in price and in terms of postage and if you drop one- it's all over
The key to success with miniart and other vac form kits is patience - there are no shortcuts. Plenty of sandpaper and some good music to listen to while sanding the edges.
Although this article by Brett Green is mainly aimed at aircraft modellers it's worth a read- especially the section on tools.
Recently I discovered that there exists or did exist a vacuform model of the Skoda RSO by a company called Air Press production. here's a pic of a French modeler's attempt at it
Now I'd like to try my modelling skills on that!
but if you persevere and take your time they are worth it. I know some some modellers who build vac form planes! At least with the buildings there is room for some margin of error. I've built about ten vacuform buildings between Miniart and a Polish Company called TM True ceramic buildings are easier to put together but they are heavier and more expensive in price and in terms of postage and if you drop one- it's all over
The key to success with miniart and other vac form kits is patience - there are no shortcuts. Plenty of sandpaper and some good music to listen to while sanding the edges.
Although this article by Brett Green is mainly aimed at aircraft modellers it's worth a read- especially the section on tools.
Recently I discovered that there exists or did exist a vacuform model of the Skoda RSO by a company called Air Press production. here's a pic of a French modeler's attempt at it
Now I'd like to try my modelling skills on that!
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 10:49 AM UTC
While looking for the kit you're building I found this video of the finshed kit by a Japanese modeller. You have to admit the results can be impressive.
MSGsummit
Joined: November 16, 2002
KitMaker: 751 posts
Armorama: 545 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 01:20 PM UTC
Pat - I can only hope mine will turn out as well as the one on you-tube. Thanks for the inspiration!
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 04:33 AM UTC
They are challenging. I've built several and have yet to achieve a 90 degree angle in the inside corners. Some experimental trimming is needed here and maybe some faking to hide accidental gaps. But their newer kits have good engraved detail and when well painted and weathered look great. MiniArt have a tutorial on their website:http://www.miniart-models.com/
dbudd
Joined: March 23, 2006
KitMaker: 229 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 05:38 AM UTC
I bought one of their sets and found the quality to be very poor and would never buy anything from them again. I ended up just using a verlinden street and making the walls from scratch using casting plaster.
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 06:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I bought one of their sets and found the quality to be very poor and would never buy anything from them again.
Which set did you buy?
Marty
Joined: June 16, 2002
KitMaker: 2,312 posts
Armorama: 1,054 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 11:12 AM UTC
I bought one of the buildings and and after looking at all the parts I decided to re-mold it and re-cast it in plaster. The new and improved building is coming out quite well.
dioman13
Joined: August 19, 2007
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
Armorama: 1,468 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 11:51 AM UTC
Some of them can be real nice. The one I tried was a dissaster, the Ukrain building. Couldn't get the windows to line up to save my own life even though I added tabs to them they would not line up.But then it is stashed in a box now and will try to re-furbish it down the road. The acc's, are worth the cost of the kit though. I mainly pour my own plaster sheets and scribe them and I use the acc's for the windows and doors. The gutters are pretty good along with the street lights too. House doors seem to be large for 1/35th figures, so I cut them down a bit. I think the one I bought was one of the first releases, and have heard very little compaints about the new ones.
dbudd
Joined: March 23, 2006
KitMaker: 229 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 12:21 PM UTC
Park Gates and Fence 35007, they are just cheap kits and no where near the quality of a something like a verlinden kit
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 10:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I haven't built that kit but you shouldn't write off a whole line of kits because one didn't go well for you.Park Gates and Fence 35007, they are just cheap kits and no where near the quality of a something like a verlinden kit
To compare them to Verlinden is odd because Verlinden have their own problem kits.
Minart are not shake and bake kits- they don't fall out of the box almost readymade- If that's what you want then go for Verlinden but if you approach Miniart Kits properly and spend time on them then the quality is superb.
Have a look at this video and then show me a Verlinden building that has better quality than that.
here's a link to the Miniart Campaign Gallery showing the results possible from Miniart Buildings.
And no I don't have shares in Minart
dbudd
Joined: March 23, 2006
KitMaker: 229 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 11:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
To compare them to Verlinden is odd because Verlinden have their own problem kits. Minart are not shake and bake kits- they don't fall out of the box almost readymade- If that's what you want then go for Verlinden but if you approach Miniart Kits properly and spend time on them then the quality is superb.
There was a lot of work done to that kit in the video beyond what's in the box it make it look that good. You've also proven my point with your response. It takes a lot of extra work to make those miniart kits look good because the detail and quality is so low.
You're right verlinden has some problem kits. However, I compare them to verlinden kits because they're made of resin not injected plastic and they include way more detail then the miniart kits. Take a look at the current issue of AFV Modeller and you can see what I did with verlinden kits. Also, I have no stock in verlinden.
downtowndeco
Vendor
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 306 posts
Armorama: 272 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 07:15 PM UTC
What are we, chopped liver? : ) It kills me to see you guys have all these construction problems w/diorama kits. When I designed ours I designed them so that the average modeler could have the basic structure glued together in about 15 minutes, that way you can get to the fun part (painting/detailing) much sooner.
After you paint it (we walk you through step by step in full color instructions) you can add the laser cut wood doors/windows/shattered glass. Wham, bam, there you go mame.
Building models is supossed to be fun. We try to take the stress out of it. Cheers!
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 09:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
What are we, chopped liver? : ) It kills me to see you guys have all these construction problems w/diorama kits. When I designed ours I designed them so that the average modeler could have the basic structure glued together in about 15 minutes, that way you can get to the fun part (painting/detailing) much sooner.
After you paint it (we walk you through step by step in full color instructions) you can add the laser cut wood doors/windows/shattered glass. Wham, bam, there you go mame.
Building models is supossed to be fun. We try to take the stress out of it. Cheers!
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
But I like the stress- seriously and I don't have any construction problems. I approach Miniart kits the way I would approach a Dragon Armour kit- I don't want to put it together in 15 minutes. A lot of modelers seem to treat the builkdings and groundwork as an afterthought or as something to make the vehicle or figures look good- for me the building is as important as the vehicle in a diorama.
I do use Plaster buildings both kits and Scratchbuilt but I like the challenge of miniart kits.
In the end to each his own
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 10:07 PM UTC
I'm lucky I guess.. (Many) Years, ago, when I was building more aircraft than I do now, I got a few Vac-Form conversion sets and learned from these some useful techniques. While there isn't the need for such exact joins on a building as there is in an aircraft, the basic principal is the same. Happiest moment was probably a Vac-For conversion for the Avro Manchester and even a Vac-Form Vulcan.
The secret is perseverance along with sheets of Wet 'n Dry taped to a solid surface. Support EVERYTHING with strips of spare styrene inside the structures. Don't worry about overlapping edges (particularly when it's a rough edge such as a damaged building) these can be evened-up with plaster or putty...
What I like about them it's like 'Old-Time Modeling' When some of us boring old farts started, there were a lot of skills you HAD to learn - scratchbuilding, conversion and yes, combining unlikely materials. With so many of the Wunder-kits available and the sheer quantity of variants, a lot of the basic skills aren't so much in demand. Not nostalgia at all, I prefer the available models we have now, but there is a skill set required with the MiniArt buildings which is well-worth developing...
The secret is perseverance along with sheets of Wet 'n Dry taped to a solid surface.
Support EVERYTHING with strips of spare styrene inside the structures. Don't worry about overlapping edges (particularly when it's a rough edge such as a damaged building) these can be evened-up with plaster or putty...What I like about them it's like 'Old-Time Modeling'
When some of us boring old farts started, there were a lot of skills you HAD to learn - scratchbuilding, conversion and yes, combining unlikely materials. With so many of the Wunder-kits available and the sheer quantity of variants, a lot of the basic skills aren't so much in demand. Not nostalgia at all, I prefer the available models we have now, but there is a skill set required with the MiniArt buildings which is well-worth developing... 
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 11:18 PM UTC
I've been reading this topic and decided that I should chime in with my two cents.
In my opinion, the Miniart buildings are garbage and should be avoided.
Jim, I hear ya and you make valid points. I like a challenge as much as the next guy. I've never built vacu-form kits before the Miniart buildings. I've built two of them. Not one of them had pieces that remotely lined up. Not even close. I made comments about that on either track-link or missing-lynx stating as such, and the smart alecs at Miniart asked me if I read the instructions. Yes I did, the lousy ones in the kit and the ones I found on the Miniart site.
I don't mind a little cutting, filing, scraping, sanding and filling to get parts to line up. But when I have to use a couple of sheets of sandpaper to get the building sides to fit and then waste an entire tube of Squadron green to hide to lousy alignment issues, then I say enough. Both of the miniart buildings that I bought were like that. $50 worth of garbage. I figured one lousy fitting kit was possibly a mould issue. But a second one? THey got me for $50 but that will be the last $$$ they get out of me.
Garbage. Total garbage. My advice is avoind Miniart buildings at all costs, unless you have an unlimited supply of diazepam.
The plaster kits from Dioramas Plus are well worth the money and the insides can be built up with detailing to make some fine looking ruins. Highly recommended. Less stress leads to better models and a happier outlook.
Steve
In my opinion, the Miniart buildings are garbage and should be avoided.
Jim, I hear ya and you make valid points. I like a challenge as much as the next guy. I've never built vacu-form kits before the Miniart buildings. I've built two of them. Not one of them had pieces that remotely lined up. Not even close. I made comments about that on either track-link or missing-lynx stating as such, and the smart alecs at Miniart asked me if I read the instructions. Yes I did, the lousy ones in the kit and the ones I found on the Miniart site.
I don't mind a little cutting, filing, scraping, sanding and filling to get parts to line up. But when I have to use a couple of sheets of sandpaper to get the building sides to fit and then waste an entire tube of Squadron green to hide to lousy alignment issues, then I say enough. Both of the miniart buildings that I bought were like that. $50 worth of garbage. I figured one lousy fitting kit was possibly a mould issue. But a second one? THey got me for $50 but that will be the last $$$ they get out of me.
Garbage. Total garbage. My advice is avoind Miniart buildings at all costs, unless you have an unlimited supply of diazepam.
The plaster kits from Dioramas Plus are well worth the money and the insides can be built up with detailing to make some fine looking ruins. Highly recommended. Less stress leads to better models and a happier outlook.
Steve
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Friday, September 23, 2011 - 01:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've been reading this topic and decided that I should chime in with my two cents.
In my opinion, the Miniart buildings are garbage and should be avoided.
As I said each to his own- how do you explain the results some of the rest of us get?
downtowndeco
Vendor
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 306 posts
Armorama: 272 posts
Posted: Friday, September 23, 2011 - 02:12 AM UTC
Yes, to each his own, which is exactly what modeling is all about. There is no right or wrong way to do it. I've seen some of the MA finished up very, very nicely. One of the things they really have over plaster kits is they don't weigh half a ton, which means they are much less expensive to ship over seas. Because of the weight of our kits I know we don't sell nearly as many as we could across the pond. Oh well. We do what we, they do what they do. : )
Cheers!
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
Cheers!
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
What are we, chopped liver? : ) It kills me to see you guys have all these construction problems w/diorama kits. When I designed ours I designed them so that the average modeler could have the basic structure glued together in about 15 minutes, that way you can get to the fun part (painting/detailing) much sooner.
After you paint it (we walk you through step by step in full color instructions) you can add the laser cut wood doors/windows/shattered glass. Wham, bam, there you go mame.
Building models is supossed to be fun. We try to take the stress out of it. Cheers!
Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus
But I like the stress- seriously and I don't have any construction problems. I approach Miniart kits the way I would approach a Dragon Armour kit- I don't want to put it together in 15 minutes. A lot of modelers seem to treat the builkdings and groundwork as an afterthought or as something to make the vehicle or figures look good- for me the building is as important as the vehicle in a diorama.
I do use Plaster buildings both kits and Scratchbuilt but I like the challenge of miniart kits.
In the end to each his own
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Friday, September 23, 2011 - 10:30 AM UTC
[/quote]
As I said each to his own- how do you explain the results some of the rest of us get?[/quote]
I don't know, Pat. I don't know how many hours people put into these kits. For me, there is a point where frustration wins out and I don't feel like banging my head against the wall.
Perhaps I got two bad kits: that's a definite possibility. But I won't be betting anymore money on it.
Steve
As I said each to his own- how do you explain the results some of the rest of us get?[/quote]
I don't know, Pat. I don't know how many hours people put into these kits. For me, there is a point where frustration wins out and I don't feel like banging my head against the wall.
Perhaps I got two bad kits: that's a definite possibility. But I won't be betting anymore money on it.
Steve
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