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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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MM Acryl flat varnish and Tamiya thinner
GALILEO1
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2011 - 08:32 AM UTC
Hey all,

Do any of you use this combo (MM Acryl flat + Tamiya X20A thinner)? If so, are your finishes completely flat? I've been trying for weeks now to tame MM Acryl's super fast drying properties and began to experiment a bit combining the two to see what I get. The results are great in terms of preventing Acryl to dry in the airbrush but, in doing this, I'm not getting a completely flat finish as when I did when not using Tamiya to thin the varnish.

If you've tried this before and got decent flat result, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks!

Rob
SgtRam
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2011 - 08:47 AM UTC
I tried the Tamiya thinner in the MM Flat Clear and got a gloss coat. I went back to the rattle can, Testor Flat Spray, easy, convenient, and always ready. I will try again, but I will try the Testors Airbrush thinner.

AgentG
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2011 - 10:39 AM UTC
I use MM Acryl Flat and Windex mixed 50 50. It sprays well and doesn't dry as fast in the airbrush. It gives a dead flat finish that's quite tough.

G
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2011 - 12:09 PM UTC
If you want to thin out MM Acryl flat, try some LIquitex Flo-Aid.
To slow drying time, add Liquitex Slo-Dri.
With both, go a few drops at a time in a bottle until you get it to shoot exactly how you want. Then write down your proportions so you can make it again the same way in the future.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 05:31 AM UTC
Thanks for the feedback, all! I have managed to get the Acryl flat to come out satin (more of less) than glossy. The key to this was to add less thinner to the mix. However, I'm still not getting the level of flatness that I'm looking for. It did improve the flow significantly and I am now able to spray for more than an hour almost completely uninterrupted by clogging.

I did also try, before I began experimenting with Tamiya thinner, the MM Acryl with Windex combo. Although the varnish came out dead flat I was not able to solve the drying/clogging issue and so I moved on to the Tamiya thinner. I'll give the Liquitex mediums a try and see what I get.

Matt, with this combo, I would not need to add any water to the mix, right?

Thanks!

Rob
SSGToms
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Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 01:29 PM UTC
Rob,
Right, don't add any water or thinner. Just the two Liquitex products.
Also, I always keep a little cup of Windex or airbrush cleaner with a Q-Tip in it for when my nozzle clogs. Just a quick spin in the nozzle cap with the Q-Tip and it's back to shooting.

Shooting flat clear for up to an hour? What the hell are you painting, 1/35 battleships?
GALILEO1
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Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 02:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Rob,
Shooting flat clear for up to an hour? What the hell are you painting, 1/35 battleships?


No 1/35 battleships, Matt I'm a pretty slow 'painter' and like to apply my coats of paint/clear varnishes really thin (almost translucent) so it takes me quite a bit of time to cover a whole model (especially when I do 1/48 or 1/32 aircraft). I like building layers slowly so I need paint products that can at least be able to spray consistently through the a/b for more than just 2 or 3 minutes at any given time. This is my main issue with MM Acryl and, to a large extent, with Vallejo. I actually do like Acryl for the large range of colors they offer but its almost-instant clogging action is a complete turn off. I used to be an enamel guy and loved enamels for this reason, I could take my sweet time and blend colors slowly for hours, if I had needed to. So far, Tamiya paints are the only ones giving me what I need in terms of consistent spraying performance. Wish they could expand their range of colors though.

Thanks for the help!

Rob
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 03:19 AM UTC
I've tried both the MM acrylic clear flat and the Tamiya flat additive, neither gave the real flat finish I was after, and I had tip clogging with the MM clear. I've since gone back to Testors Gloss and Flat coat. Both are lacquer based finishes. Both work great time and time again. Are easy to find, And they don't clog up your air brush.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 05:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've tried both the MM acrylic clear flat and the Tamiya flat additive, neither gave the real flat finish I was after, and I had tip clogging with the MM clear. I've since gone back to Testors Gloss and Flat coat. Both are lacquer based finishes. Both work great time and time again. Are easy to find, And they don't clog up your air brush.


Thanks for the feedback, Joel! Yeah, I used to use both of Testors' Gloss and Dull coats with great success. I don't use them anymore though since the vapors are pretty strong and the family gives me a hard time about them. I've since moved almost 100% into acrylics (except for filters and washes) and really would like find a good acrylic matt varnish that will work right.

Rob
imatanker
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 11:27 AM UTC
Matt,are you using the flo-aid straight out of the bottle ,or thinned 20 to 1 with water like it says to do on the bottle? thanks,Jeff
flyboy92187
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 12:31 PM UTC
Rob: Lets be blunt, I hate model master paints... That said, I know it from numerous bad experiances. And, living in the US as well, I know we are pretty stuck with model master for acrylics. I have thinned the flat finish with IPA, as well as with their universal thinner, but I was never satisfied with the finish. I also tried a couple kits with the MM, thinned with distilled water, also not great. I strongly reccomend spruebrothers, as they carry a good alternative: lifecolor acrylics. It took a bit of research to find a place, as there is not a lot to choose from in wi, and tamiya is in short supply everywhere, this stuff works. First, it is easily thinned with Distilled water. Second, it is probably the best flat finish I have been able to obtain on any of my kits. It goes on much more uniformally then the model master, and does not gunk up my airbrush. If you try it you will not be disappointed.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 05:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Rob: Lets be blunt, I hate model master paints... That said, I know it from numerous bad experiances. And, living in the US as well, I know we are pretty stuck with model master for acrylics. I have thinned the flat finish with IPA, as well as with their universal thinner, but I was never satisfied with the finish. I also tried a couple kits with the MM, thinned with distilled water, also not great. I strongly reccomend spruebrothers, as they carry a good alternative: lifecolor acrylics. It took a bit of research to find a place, as there is not a lot to choose from in wi, and tamiya is in short supply everywhere, this stuff works. First, it is easily thinned with Distilled water. Second, it is probably the best flat finish I have been able to obtain on any of my kits. It goes on much more uniformally then the model master, and does not gunk up my airbrush. If you try it you will not be disappointed.


Thanks much for the tip on Life Color's flat varnish, Michael! I know of Life Color but didn't know they too had their own clear varnishes. I've tried a couple of LC colors in the past but due to them being extremely hard to find individually (only found the sets) I never invested much time in getting them. I'll definitely be trying them out on my next project.

Rob
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