I'm trying to figure out the best way to apply markings over zimmerit. Can someone who has used water slide decals, dry transfers, and stencils describe the pros and cons of the three methods? Is one method substantially easier?

On a related note, is it worthwhile to try and splice together water slide decals or does the risk of misaligned numbers generally outweigh the benefits? In my case, I have a bunch of 113's but need 133's.

Thanks for any help.

Have used water slide with "Solvaset " for years, something like 25 or so, works well on green stuff zimmerit. It does have LOTS of bite but may take a couple of tries if it is a pretty agressive pattern.
Good luck, mark

I concur with Mark, I build a Tiger a while back, applied zimmerit with Milliputt, and had no issues getting the decals to sit with SolvaSet. I use the Walther's(Model RailRoad) brand. It has been amazing what that stuff can do.

I have built Dragons Tiger I and Tiger II with the molded on Zimm which is on the heavy side.Liberal doses of micro set and micro sol have done a very effective job.

Well, I'll advocate a different technique: I much prefer using stencils for numbers and other markings, and not just on Zimmerit, but just about any time that I can.

You have total control over the appearance and to my eye, most decals simply look too perfect, especially for large field applied markings like turret numbers. This is where stenciled painted on markings really shine. You can allow that little bit of over or under spray to capture that candid look of field applied markings. You can also easily combine the stenciled markings with hand-painted brush filling or accents for more accuracy.

Another advantage on Zimmerit is that the rough surface "shrinks" water-slide and dry-transfer decals as they conform to the valleys and peaks whereas stenciled on markings retain their correct size.

And of couse, no gloss coat or decal setting solutions are required and you never get any silvering, lifting or exposed decal carrier film!

The down side is that painting markings is quite a bit of work, and you must take care when using stencils. Some additional level of painting skill is required. There's a lot more handling of the model which presents some risk of damage. Also, depending on the markings, if reverse masking is required, you need to plan the application of the markings before you do your basic paint.

Another downside is that many markings are simply not available as stencils, especially Allied markings. However, on the German side, just about any vehicle marking you can imagine has one or more commercially available stencil sets available.

Here're some very nice example stenciles:

Armor Painting Stencils

One neat thing about these sets is that they have an allignment jig for markings that require multiple stencils to apply (like Balkan Crosses, two-color numbers, fancy unit insignia, etc). The jigs keep the subsequent stencils in registration or numbers in alignment.

Anyways, painting definitely has some advantages over water slide and dry transfer decals that make the extra effort worth it in my opinion.

So, a "vote" for an alternative ....

BillG.; / all:

I'm with Mike.

This topic flew around another thread this site back around 16 - 17 May 2011- Here's what I was thinking then and now on this

"Decals over zimm? Blah!

I'd recommend using a stencil and spraying markings (for all the larger markings - numbers and crosses, etc. - to which this discussion properly focuses on).

Wherever I can, I mask and spray on insignia and numbers. This is the most appropriate approach for such applied over zimmerit, for this is how the real markings were mostly applied.

To me, the problem of applying decals over zimm is more than just the mechanical issues of getting decals to snug into the zimm, which have been well-addressed in above posts IMO. It's a matter of distortion of length vrs width in markings caused by applying a flat film over a topography...

Zimm is a "3-dimensional" surface with hills and valleys. Think of the hills and valleys on a topographic map vrs the real area surface. The larger or higher the hills you go over, the further you walked to go the map "straight-line" distance.

For 1/72, the scale or size of the zimm hills and valleys relative to the thickness of the decal is pretty small - so the decal can set pretty well onto this surface and not be very distorted by "folding" into and filling zimm grooves. For larger scales - 1/48 and more so 1/35 - the zimm hills and valleys are much larger relative to the decal film thickness, and the decal starts to "fit" more the surface of the zimm. In effect, you walk down into valleys and up those hills, rather than from hill - top to hill - top.

So, paradoxically, larger - scale zimm allows better decal-set per the routes described, but yields more-distorted markings. (It may be instructive to carefully measure your decal marking while on its paper-backing, and then measure the same decal marking once applied, to see this effect).

So, I spray them on. It's really very easy, and I get to skip messing around with decal-set issues and application of solutions, carefully and closely-trimming decals, possibly needing a "future" patch, risk of silvering, etc. And the stenciled markings don't distort or re-size over zimm!

IF a real marking was brushed on, it would not generally fill in to the troughs or cuts/valleys in the zimm. And some markings were apparently brushed on - with or without using a stencil. So use the stencil, brush it on and get that true brushed-on effect!

Just my opine and a suggestion, folks!

Bob "

Mike / Bob: Thanks for the quick overview of stencils. One comment and one question if you're both still reading this.

1) I understand how decals / transfers might become distorted as they are pressed down over the peaks / valleys of zimmerit. If I have my facts straight, the turret numbers for my Tiger II should be 7.5 mm in 1/35 scale. The decals that come with the kit are exactly 7.5 mm high and, therefore, would be subject to this distorting effect. However, the Archer transfers I am considering are 8.4 mm high and my guess is this was done deliberately to counteract this problem.

2) Are either of you aware of a stencil set appropriate for the Tiger II's of 1/s.Pz.Abt. 503?

BillG.;

Hi!

Sorta in reverse order: The stencil sets I have been using are those really nice items sold by "AM Works", if I have it right. These are available via evilbay and come in sets with outline numbers and solid numbers in different sizes. There are sets for "medium" and "large" numbers, and maybe, if I remember right what I think I've seen, even a specific set of numbers and insignia for s.Pz.Abt 503. I do not know what the exact sizes are of the various numbers... I'll check and post the size when I get home this PM? The AM Works stencils are thin stainless steel and are awesome (IMHO, of course! ). There are a couple of other brands out there, as well, and I'll bet they also work just fine.

As for those dry-transfers... "huh". Being a "silly mm taller" (sorta like an old cigarette ad... ) MAY be to adapt for the zimm hills and valleys effect. And it could well work. I've never used any such thing on a plastic panzer (all the dry transfers I ever used were those "Letra-set" things we used for drafting maps and slide-art back before PowerPoint, etc. GREAT on paper and on celluloid films!) and actually have been aiming to try these on a smooth hull... But how easy would it be to effectively rub them into the zim? Don't know. Sounds like zim might be where a decal and decal-solvents would have some advantage, as one could float the decal into the zim-field and then "squeegee" it down. I think I would try the dry transfer stuff on some trials hulk or something before I committed to trying it on a finished tank

Cheers!

Bob

BillG:

I got home and checked my steel number stencils as promised-

The AM Works stencil plate LW35029B has numbers which are 7.5mm tall. This stencil plate is sold together with LW35029A, which has slightly larger / taller numbers, in a set labelled "WWII German turret numbers - Medium and Light Tanks".

So, these would match your decals, at least in height.

Cheers!

Bob