Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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divisions with elephants
godfather
Canada
Joined: June 26, 2002
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Joined: June 26, 2002
KitMaker: 817 posts
Armorama: 465 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 06:49 PM UTC
Is there any place I can go on the net that can tell which division, battalions etc had elephants as part of thier oob?
jrnelson
Iowa, United States
Joined: May 23, 2002
KitMaker: 719 posts
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Joined: May 23, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 10:38 AM UTC
Here is some information on the Elephants that were re-made from the Ferdinands that survived Kursk.... Initially the Ferdinands were assigned to sPzJagAbt 653 and 654. These were combined into sPzJagAbt 653 after the Kursk offensive.
The forty eight surviving Elephants were grouped into schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 653 and were transferred to Italy in February of 1944. They saw combat at Nettuno, Anzio and Cisterna in March of 1944. sPzJagAbt 654 was switched to France in late 1943 and rearmed with Jagdpanthers (so they no longer had Elephants). This unit did not have any Elephants during the fighting in Italy.
In April of 1944, part of sPzJagAbt 653 was shipped back to the Eastern Front, and in the fall of 1944, all existing Elephants were then condensed into a brand new unit - schwere Heeres Panzerjager Kompanie 614. sPzJagAbt 653 was re-equipped with Jagdtigers (thus, this unit no longer had Elephants either after the Fall of '44)..
sPzJagAbt 614 with around 15 Elephants fought in Russia and Poland as late as early 1945. The final unit to use Elephants was Kampfgruppe "Ritter" in the area of Zossen, Germany in April of 1945. At least 4 Elephants took part in the defense of Berlin as part of Kampfgruppe Ritter.
Sorry it took so long to respond... - I had to dig through my unorganized pile of books
Jeff
The forty eight surviving Elephants were grouped into schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 653 and were transferred to Italy in February of 1944. They saw combat at Nettuno, Anzio and Cisterna in March of 1944. sPzJagAbt 654 was switched to France in late 1943 and rearmed with Jagdpanthers (so they no longer had Elephants). This unit did not have any Elephants during the fighting in Italy.
In April of 1944, part of sPzJagAbt 653 was shipped back to the Eastern Front, and in the fall of 1944, all existing Elephants were then condensed into a brand new unit - schwere Heeres Panzerjager Kompanie 614. sPzJagAbt 653 was re-equipped with Jagdtigers (thus, this unit no longer had Elephants either after the Fall of '44)..
sPzJagAbt 614 with around 15 Elephants fought in Russia and Poland as late as early 1945. The final unit to use Elephants was Kampfgruppe "Ritter" in the area of Zossen, Germany in April of 1945. At least 4 Elephants took part in the defense of Berlin as part of Kampfgruppe Ritter.
Sorry it took so long to respond... - I had to dig through my unorganized pile of books
Jeff
zululand66
New Jersey, United States
Joined: August 07, 2002
KitMaker: 233 posts
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Joined: August 07, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 11:53 AM UTC
Hi All,
Actually, only a small number of SPzJgAbt 653 went to Italy. 1st company was sent w/11 elefants (2 HQ, 4x 1st platoon, 4x 2nd platoon, 1x 3rd platoon). After the fighting in Italy the unit was withdrawn back to Germany (w/2 survivors, one of the 11 ended up at Aberdeen Proving ground, Maryland, USA). HTH.
Regards,
Georg
Actually, only a small number of SPzJgAbt 653 went to Italy. 1st company was sent w/11 elefants (2 HQ, 4x 1st platoon, 4x 2nd platoon, 1x 3rd platoon). After the fighting in Italy the unit was withdrawn back to Germany (w/2 survivors, one of the 11 ended up at Aberdeen Proving ground, Maryland, USA). HTH.
Regards,
Georg
SS-74
Vatican City
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
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Joined: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 12:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Here is some information on the Elephants that were re-made from the Ferdinands that survived Kursk.... Initially the Ferdinands were assigned to sPzJagAbt 653 and 654. These were combined into sPzJagAbt 653 after the Kursk offensive.
The forty eight surviving Elephants were grouped into schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 653 and were transferred to Italy in February of 1944. They saw combat at Nettuno, Anzio and Cisterna in March of 1944. sPzJagAbt 654 was switched to France in late 1943 and rearmed with Jagdpanthers (so they no longer had Elephants). This unit did not have any Elephants during the fighting in Italy.
In April of 1944, part of sPzJagAbt 653 was shipped back to the Eastern Front, and in the fall of 1944, all existing Elephants were then condensed into a brand new unit - schwere Heeres Panzerjager Kompanie 614. sPzJagAbt 653 was re-equipped with Jagdtigers (thus, this unit no longer had Elephants either after the Fall of '44)..
sPzJagAbt 614 with around 15 Elephants fought in Russia and Poland as late as early 1945. The final unit to use Elephants was Kampfgruppe "Ritter" in the area of Zossen, Germany in April of 1945. At least 4 Elephants took part in the defense of Berlin as part of Kampfgruppe Ritter.
Sorry it took so long to respond... - I had to dig through my unorganized pile of books
Jeff
Again, very informative and accurate information from Jeff. I am real impressed with Jeff's knowledge. Thanks Jeff.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 12:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
64th Armor Regiment, "Tuskers", used a rampant black African elefant head with the motto "We Pierce" on a scroll. The regiment draws their roots from the first US black armor battalion hence the use of the black African elefant head.Is there any place I can go on the net that can tell which division, battalions etc had elephants as part of thier oob?
jrnelson
Iowa, United States
Joined: May 23, 2002
KitMaker: 719 posts
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Joined: May 23, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 01:04 PM UTC
Hi Dave-
Actually it isn't MY knowledge... I just regurgitate what I have read in various books and magazines, web sites, etc....
I have a folder on my computer for just about every German vehicle made :-) When I come across pics on the net, or facts, etc. - in the folder they go. I usually condense the info down into short blurbs, stuff that I think I'd be interested in knowing, so I can refer to it later. Over the years, I've accumulated a good deal of information.
The only problem with my system is that when I started doing this, I didn't keep track of where I was getting all of it. Now I can't go back to get the stuff I "snipped" out in the first place.
This little bit about Elephants came from my "elephant' folder - God only knows where I got it in the first place.... or if it is correct... LOL I had to dig through my books to verify a few things before I posted it.
Later-
Jeff
Actually it isn't MY knowledge... I just regurgitate what I have read in various books and magazines, web sites, etc....
I have a folder on my computer for just about every German vehicle made :-) When I come across pics on the net, or facts, etc. - in the folder they go. I usually condense the info down into short blurbs, stuff that I think I'd be interested in knowing, so I can refer to it later. Over the years, I've accumulated a good deal of information.
The only problem with my system is that when I started doing this, I didn't keep track of where I was getting all of it. Now I can't go back to get the stuff I "snipped" out in the first place.
This little bit about Elephants came from my "elephant' folder - God only knows where I got it in the first place.... or if it is correct... LOL I had to dig through my books to verify a few things before I posted it.
Later-
Jeff
Venom
Alessandria, Italy
Joined: July 28, 2003
KitMaker: 720 posts
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Joined: July 28, 2003
KitMaker: 720 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 06:45 PM UTC
1) 1Company, Schwere panzerjager Abt 653, Italy, 1944
2) 2Company, Schwere panzerjager Abt 653,Galicia/Russia 1944
3) 3Company, Schwere panzerjager Abt 653,Galicia/Russia 1944
regards
2) 2Company, Schwere panzerjager Abt 653,Galicia/Russia 1944
3) 3Company, Schwere panzerjager Abt 653,Galicia/Russia 1944
regards
penpen
Hauts-de-Seine, France
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,757 posts
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Joined: April 11, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 11:00 PM UTC
Rob, I know we're a bit off-topic here but thanks for your info !
Do you have any more info about that regiment ?
it would certainly make an interesting subject !
Do you have any more info about that regiment ?
it would certainly make an interesting subject !
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
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Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Friday, October 03, 2003 - 12:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
http://www.stewart.army.mil/Display.asp?Page=16B9270C-02BA-4C82-97F3-FF1943E7C14DRob, I know we're a bit off-topic here but thanks for your info !
Do you have any more info about that regiment ?
it would certainly make an interesting subject !
I posted the previous information because the original poster did not specify whether he was looking for information on WW2 German units. Had he selected the WWII - Germany armor subcategory I would have bypassed the thread completely. My apologizes for being "off-topic".
keenan
Indiana, United States
Joined: October 16, 2002
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Posted: Friday, October 03, 2003 - 12:20 AM UTC
Thanks for the hyperlink Rob. Definitely some Korean War era dio possibilities there...
Shaun
Shaun