Hi all,

I was wondering what advantages (I am assuming there are) the MIG pigments have over just using pastel chalk for pigment/dusting. Does one look better than the other/stick better? I am wondering because I will be making a Pantherturm turret in the near future, so I need a lot of pigments/dusting effects. Thank you very much.

-Joe

Hey,

Right off the top of my head, I believe Mig pigments have higher pigment load vs. pastel chalks. In my opinion and as well as others here, they will tell you its very expensive for what you get.

In terms of their oil colour, washes and filters though, I think these are over-glorified for what you get. I can always mix my own artist's oil colours I use for painting and probably have better pigment load, opacity, etc. but I am not certain of the quality of their oil color line, so I'm out on a limb here. Maybe someone can fill me in?

All of the modeling pigment lines, and there are about a half dozen of them, are pure pigment very finely ground and mixed with an adhesive bonding agent. They are much richer in color and adhere much better than ground chalk pastels.
As far as oil paints go, Winsor & Newton Winton oil paints are excellent for modeling and available at your nearest art store.

Jo, if it is of any help to you if you haven't already made your purchase....
I found when looking to buy pigments that the price of Vallejo sets worked out a little cheaper than the Mig brand. It may vary depending on stockists, but it is worth looking at.

As an example, the UK stockist I used had Mig pigments costing £3-95 for a single 20ml bottle, while a set of four Vallejo (sets like: rust and oil / mud and sand / stone and cement) came to £11-95 for 4 x 30ml bottles. In fact that works out at half the price: Vallejo at £12 for 120mls is £1 per 10ml compared to Mig at £4 for 20ml being £2 for 10ml. Depends if you want those four colours in the set of course...

I think we'd all acknowledge that the quality of Vallejo products is good, so I don't think you'd be losing out on quality by buying these. Obviously other brands may be even cheaper and just as good.

On the subject of the Mig oils... they are fine, but of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with Winsor and Newton, or various other good quality brands of artists' oils. The main issue with Mig oils is that the *names* of the colours don't necessarily give you the correct impression of what the colour in the tube actually is. It is probably best if you can visit a shop in which case no-one will mind you taking the lid off a tube to have quick look at the actual colour, no matter what the brand.

I agree with Alexander. They are not worth the cost. I'll stick with chalks and my own washes, as opposed to shelling out my money for Mig's.

Thanks for all the help guys. It is much appreciated.

I'm with Gino above.

I use chalks and tinted charcoal - work great, have lots of control, and easy to remove if you goof. The colors are not as rich nor intense as with pigments, but, then much of the dust world is just that - dust - NOT intense nor terribly distinct. So, IMO, chalks actually do better for many dust and grunge applications. Chalks DO offer a seeming advantage - you CAN afford to apply heaps of the stuff mixed with thiiner, turps, or soapy water to make some nice massive dust-piling and caking. I would stress that you need to grind your chalks very very finely for best application and effect. Also, chalks do not adhere as tightly as pigments do, and so more easily drop off - but I don't play with my plastic panzers once done (vrooom, vrrrrr-roooom! ) - so generally don't suffer this problem!

Bob

Bob, tinted charcoal - what is that exactly? Is it an artists' product?

Main issue I've had with the pastel chalks is only ever managing to find them in sets rather than individual sticks, so I've ended up with a *big* supply of kind of unusable colours!

vrooom, vrrrrr-roooom - that's funny...

Matt;




Tinted and bleached (bright white!) charcoals are dry stick products similar to artists's pastel chalk sticks - but made using compressed charcoal. It comes in mostly gray scale to real black and bright white, but some earth tones are also around. Here in the USA, General's brand is available in craft stores like HobbyLobby and Michael's. These charcoals behave much like the chalk sticks, but the material is a finer grain and thus powders better, in my experience.

Yeah, the "in sets" issue... I'm with you, mate! I have found that there are small sets with fairly useful colors - and even the blues and reds can get used by mixing them with other stuff... But there is, alas, waste. But I look at it this way: I have many paints, such as gun-metal and steel and red and blue and clear green, which seriously get used only in tiny amounts and the bottles mostly dry-up - whereas I seem to drink of the dunkelgelb!

"vrooom..." I don't shove my plastic panzers around the table any more (tracks break, bits fall off, etc.) - but I'm still good with the wheeled stuff This is why I've not posted pics of my recent sdkfz 223 build

Bob

Hi Joe,

In all fairness,I'd suggest to use both pastels and pigments on your model and diorama.
This breaks up the visual impression and its not all uniform so to speak,
Ie: the weathering is not all the same .
The MiG Pigments can be applied wet onto your model and they dry with a real dusty appearance .
I use the Pnzer 502 thinner mixed with some pigments and you achieve amazing results.Once dry you can always dust it away if you think it's too much .
Here is an example of what I mean.Use a 00 brush and apply onto the model.

This method works for me and if its's any help I'm still using the same pigments I purchased 8 years ago.
If used sparingly the pigment will last for ages.


On the Nashorn below I used pigments across the lower running gear and then pastels on the upper half to try and create a feathered dust appearance .



Michael

back in 2000 or 2001, i had thought up the use of artist chalks to use on my models. i wasnt in any forums like this, so all of my thoughts and practices were based on my own ideas.
i lived in florida at the time and there was a large retail art supply warehouse. i cant remember the name off of the top of my head, but they did sell individual chalk sticks. any color that you could possibly imagine.

these worked excellent and imho, adhere better than the mig stuff but isnt as workable. the fine dust of the chalk got into the porous areas and was really hard to remove. i have only 2 mig colors at the moment. earth brown and light dust. light dust doesnt affix itself without some liquid application, to save its own life. the brown works decent but seems like you really have to work it in to get a dominant presence or use a liquid to apply it

the market made modeler pigments are ideal for this because they work decent and they are easy to work with and move around. chalks do great effects and there are 5 times more color options. search online and y ou can actually order individual colors. the cost is much less for the individual sticks too.

As far as pigments go, I use Doc O'Briens. It's $20 for a full set(eight jars I believe) from Micromark. They work great! For washes, I use water colors. These are extremely cheap and you can get them in many colors. I've been using the brown out of one set for two years, now. And, I have another year before I see any reason to restock them.

I am in the "I use both" camp. Partly because of the color saturation differences already mentioned. Pigments react differently than pastels when used with thinner or fixers. I found the pigments will go into solution easier while ground pastels will stay more as a particulate. I will use pigments dry or with a solvent whereas I will use pastel powders only dry. Different materials for different effects.