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T-34/76 STZ beutepanzer kursk 1943
4-BO-Green
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 07:21 AM UTC
Hey guys,

I am building a beutepanzer from the kursk battle. The info i got, came from the beutepanzer site.
This is the list of things i used;
- Dragon T-34 model 1941 kit
- Aber T-34/85 PE standard set
- Aber T-34/85 PE fender set
- Masterclub T-34/76 Model 1942 tracks (STZ type)
- A lot from the spareparts box...


The start of the scratchbuild frontplate...


The boxes on the side and rear are scrachbuild.


The rear turret box and the extra armorplates on the turret...


The STZ style hooks are ready...


The rear plate has also been converted in STZ style...




Ready for painting...

I hope you like it

Regards,

Remco
Spiderfrommars
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 07:58 AM UTC
Is truly beutiful Remco!

Now I'm waiting for your paint job

Cheers
BBD468
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Posted: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 11:06 AM UTC
Hi Remco,

thats a nice build! looking forward to see some paint!

Gary
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Posted: Friday, November 04, 2011 - 09:13 PM UTC
Hey guys,

I am busy to paint the base color. Layer three is planned for today ( six layers in total). When i finnish the basecolor, i add the pics here.

@ gary- nice job on your t-34. I have finnished the same kit in september this year for the eastern european steel campaign. Good kit.

Regards,

Remco
C_JACQUEMONT
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Loire-Atlantique, France
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Posted: Friday, November 04, 2011 - 10:23 PM UTC
Great work on the STZ mods and scratchbuild boxes!

The tank really looks different with those boxes and the add-on armour.

Cheers,

Christophe
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Saturday, November 05, 2011 - 08:09 AM UTC
@ christophe- The boxes make the tank more german. I used special tracks called "stz tracks" but ware original intended for the T-34 m type. They have also a nice called "W pattern tracks". The nicest touch i find the location of the antenna, near the rear right box. The big surprice is that they don't add the panzer 4 coupella.

Regards,

Remco
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Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 06:25 AM UTC
Hey guys ,

I have added the yellow base color from AK dunkel gelb airbrush set.





The cable and shovel are painted in black brown with a drop of gray green.
The notek black out light and the driver periscopes armored caps are also painted but not present on the photo's . This because they are a bit to small for the tape to fit on the tank.

Now i have to paint the green stripes, add the decals and paint the exhaust brown...

Please comment...

Regards,

Remco
padawan_82
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Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 09:44 AM UTC
nice build so far Remco love T-34's it's just such a simple looking tank but who would have believed it was such a great weapons platform and that some of the design concepts would influence modern day tank design (sloped armor for one.) now i don't claim to be an expert on T-34's but i read some where that T-34's manufacturered at the STZ factory had a chiseled mantlet to their gun barrel i think it was an article in AFV Modeller not 100% i'm sure that someone can prove me right or wrong on this one. but cyber hobby kit number 6388 T-34/76 STZ model 1942 shows this Ant
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Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 03:54 PM UTC
Hey Ant,

First, thanks for your comment

The real genuine 100% STZ tanks are the way you discribed. This tank is a so called ''mid'' production. It has a ''late'' body, but a mid production turret. These turrets are also known as ''factory 183'' turrets. This because the turret was no genuine STZ turret, but was delivered a lot to the Stalingrad factory's... The mix up by simply looking at the rear plate (The STZ type has the same rear plate) is often a common mistake by some authors of T-34 books that it is a STZ type turret.

Second theory- This is a beutepanzer of course, meaning that the germans put a other turret on it simply because the original turret has bin damaged beyond repair... This was very common on beutepanzers.

Regards,

Remco
MCR
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Monday, November 14, 2011 - 07:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

These turrets are also known as ''factory 183'' turrets. This because the turret was no genuine STZ turret, but was delivered a lot to the Stalingrad factory's... The mix up by simply looking at the rear plate (The STZ type has the same rear plate) is often a common mistake by some authors of T-34 books that it is a STZ type turret.


I may be misunderstanding but did you mean Factory 264 rather 183?
KhPZ provided a lot of support to STZ initially, including a number hulls and turrets but only very early on. This largely ceased when they evacuated to the Urals.
Factory 264, as well as STZ, was actually a shipyard and developed and produced hulls and turrets with interlocking components, providing these in large numbers to STZ.
Factory 183 on the other hand never made T-34s using the interlocking design.

Mark
padawan_82
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Posted: Monday, November 14, 2011 - 09:35 AM UTC
Remco:
well that could be the case certainly seeing as your base kit is a model 1941 and Kursk took place in 1943 i'd say any T-34 that managed to stay in action that long would have taken some fair hits and would have been definately repaired more than once

Mark:

Quoted Text

I may be misunderstanding but did you mean Factory 264 rather 183?
KhPZ provided a lot of support to STZ initially, including a number hulls and turrets but only very early on. This largely ceased when they evacuated to the Urals.
Factory 264, as well as STZ, was actually a shipyard and developed and produced hulls and turrets with interlocking components, providing these in large numbers to STZ.
Factory 183 on the other hand never made T-34s using the interlocking design.

you bring up some valid points Mark and some new info i didn't know about thanks Ant.
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Posted: Monday, November 14, 2011 - 08:41 PM UTC
@ Mark- I understand what you mean mark, Factory 264 played a part in delivering goods for the STZ factory. Factory 183 made indeed no inerlocking tank hulls. The turret is a genuine 183 factory turret acording to my book
"T-34 the mythical weapon" (one of my most beloved books). This turret is a early/ mid. turret deliverd to the STZ factory. The "chisel" turret is a so called late one. They made some changes to the turret. The gunmantlet has been simplefied for production by not bending the plate to cut several hours of production. On the sidefront there was a weakspot due a automatic weldingprocess. The weld made here were no good and would break loose by a hit from a enemy shell. The STZ workers cut the weak spot out and welded a thicker piece of armor plate on it.

My version is a hybrid version (late hull, mid turret). On the photo's i have, the germans have welded a armored plate on the hull. Making a sugestion that the turret was penetrated there. I think this is not the case. On a other photo, on the other side there was also a welded plate. If the turret was penetrated and exit on the other side. The turret was then useless and beoned repair...
The germans had local and former tankfactoy workers in their Karkhov factory. These workers probably pointed the germans on this weak spot and welded a extra armored plate on this turret.

Regards,

Remco
MCR
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 05:19 AM UTC
The turret is a genuine 183 factory turret acording to my book

Ah, but that is my point - the turret is STZ/264 not Zavod 183. The wide backed turret was produced exclusively at Stalingrad.

Mythical Weapon has a lot of good points and some interesting information but many, if not most, of the drawings are not particularly accurate and far too much of the information is just flat out wrong. You really have to be careful using it as a guide.

Mark
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 07:21 PM UTC
Mark,

Its not completly true that these turrets were exclusively used by STZ.
According to the ''old'' info in early books the turrets were discibed as an STZ exclusive turret. New info has bin let loose by the Russian goverment together with some photo's never being released before...

I have photo's from tanks of zavod 183 that use these turrets on their tanks.
This theory is suported by their lack of a interlocking hull...
I think its highly unlikley that STZ deliverd their turret to zavod 183 while they were under attack themselves ...

I think that the turrets (a lot of them) are deliverd to STZ. Later they found the weak spot, cut it out and welded a thicker piece on it. And the STZ turret was born...

Columbus was also regarted as a retard by the goverment and church because by ''new'' findings he believed that the earth must be round and not flat... He was being warned that if he set sail for the horizon, fell of the earth and got straight to hell... With the mythical weapon its the same story.
Not all is true, but if we do some new research using new information the turret story is at least possible and no nonsense...(i think)
Good discussion Mark. Love this...

Regards,

Remco
MCR
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 08:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Mark,

Its not completly true that these turrets were exclusively used by STZ.
According to the ''old'' info in early books the turrets were discibed as an STZ exclusive turret. New info has bin let loose by the Russian goverment together with some photo's never being released before...

I have photo's from tanks of zavod 183 that use these turrets on their tanks.
This theory is suported by their lack of a interlocking hull...
I think its highly unlikley that STZ deliverd their turret to zavod 183 while they were under attack themselves ...

I think that the turrets (a lot of them) are deliverd to STZ. Later they found the weak spot, cut it out and welded a thicker piece on it. And the STZ turret was born...

Columbus was also regarted as a retard by the goverment and church because by ''new'' findings he believed that the earth must be round and not flat... He was being warned that if he set sail for the horizon, fell of the earth and got straight to hell... With the mythical weapon its the same story.
Not all is true, but if we do some new research using new information the turret story is at least possible and no nonsense...(i think)
Good discussion Mark. Love this...

Regards,

Remco


Remco,
If you have more than just the fairly well known photo of a single rebuilt tank with an STZ turret on a 183 hull I would very much love to see them!
The presently accepted "fact" is, based on Soviet archival information, that the wide backed turret was designed and produced by Zavod 264 exclusively at the end of 1941, at roughly the same time that KhPZ was evacuating from Karkov. (That Zavod 183 was busy moving house suggests that they would have had no time to provide anyone with parts.)
It should be noted that the wide backed turrets were also produced with the "simplified" technology developed at Zavod 264 and 112, techniques that were not adopted by KhPZ/UTZ.
The cheek cut outs are another interesting subject: Adopted in April/May of 1942 records suggest that these were instituted to reduce the shot trap created by the rounded face of the turret rather than correct any mechanical weakness.

As to the Church and State thinking that Columbus was nuts because they thought the world was "flat", that's a bit of a myth too. The truth is that it was well accepted that the Earth was spherical for many hundreds of years before Columbus made his ill advised try at reaching India via a western route (and ran into a whole continent he didn't know was there.)

Mark
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Posted: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 11:18 AM UTC
By the way, I never said how much I like the work you did on the hull!
Some very nice modeling there, especially the glacis.
Have you gotten any further with the paint and weathering?

Mark
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