Ola Guys

This is possibly a question aimed at the German members of this community. But maybe similar things can be found accross the whole of Western Europe.

Over the course of the last few months I have been collecting kits from Verlinden's Panzerwerk series. And I'm kinda looking for ideas. Obvious would be to make a factory but a lot of people are already doing that or have done it. So I'm looking for other ideas. And I was kinda thinking of a scrapmetalyard in the years after the war. With a workshop where such heavy machines as used in the Panzer factories could still be in use. And maybe even a shop where old and interesting stuff like parts could be sold (for the German members... a bit like the Ludolfs). And a scrapyard where stuff is waiting to be disassembled/scrapped for the metal to be reused. Where the rusting hulks of old vehicles lie next to old derelict cars. Industrial scrapmetal from foundries and such, car parts, old engines. Big metal beams and girders.

Would such a place exist in those days and what would it look like. I tried searching on Google but my German is not good enough to do in depth searches so I only got the well known pictures of the collection points in France and some small pics of a collection point in Charlottenburg. And the rest of the results were either to modern or to unclear for what I was looking for

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

With friendly greetz

Robert Blokker

the only thing I can say about, a very unusual but interesting Q, is that I heard my grandpa say that all of use was "shipped" right to Russia, the rest was like gold, as i heard the only persons getting rich like pigs where the scrap metal dealers, with the rebuilding, a lot of metal was needed right away, so I guess a "spare parts, or laying around 70 ton of precious metals yard will be hard to find


please tell me I'm wrong, I'd love to see them too

you got some pics of scrapyards out of germany, but they are of ex NVA soviet and other vehicles, not what you're looking for I suppose

Greetz

Keywords

Schrottplatz
Altmetall
Verwertung
Zerlegung

This one is in the Netherlands but not uncommon.

Good idea Robert. There was a dio here awhile ago about a collection point for comman wealth vehicals, can't find it now. In my years of driving in and out of scrap yards they seem to have a typical type of setting. Usually they have some type of fencing around them and are large dirt areas with some concrete pads, filled with piles of different types of scrap metals. You would find an office and a set of truck scales (the kind you drive up on) for delivery trucks inbound and out. There would also be utility buildings which would house the tools of the trade, oxy/acet. tanks on hand trucks, tank storage area for filled and m/t tanks and heavy tractor type equipment for moving stuff. Possable for an overhead crane or tracked types and r/r tracks for loading out gondolas for shipment. The ground is usualy very oily from draining engines and tranny fluids/anti freeze ect. Lots of small broken metal stuff laying all over, resulting in many flat truck tires, personal experiance. And a small repair shop would also be there. Lots of tow chains and tires of course. From the pictures at a scrap yard in Michigan I used to go to every week, not much but the equipment has changed over the years, besides clean up by E.P.A. laws. Don't know if this would help you for a scrap yard in Europe post W.W.2 but you get the general idea. Also, when large deliveries are made, they get dumped close by the scap pile and the cutters move in, torch or hydrolic shears now and cut it up right there and then get clawed or electric maged to the pile next to it. Scrap piles can become small mountains in the yards. Also, there is usualy a mixed metal pile around, mostly wire, coduets, small electric motors and appliances ect.Almost forgot, lots of garbage and mud around, it is a scrap yard so being clean is not a noted fact.

Ola Guys

Thanks for taking the time to reply

@ Pit
It actually makes a lot of sense that a lot of the stuff that could be put into action immediately was send to Russia. But then still you would end up with a lot of stuff that was either beyond repair or so much damaged that it could not be put to use in an instant. Maybe I have to reset the period to an earlier point like right after WW2... 1946 or so. Even before stuff could be sold or scrapped it needs to be collected. So i don't think it is impossible that an entrepreneuring scrapmerchant could salvage some battledamaged vehicles along with a huge load of debris from the damaged cities (and everything not bolted down) (and what was bolted down to be unbolted with the right tools). All collected in a scrapmetalyard with their own workshop.

@ MBR
Thanks for those terms. Verwertung and Zerlegung were actually new to me. I'm going to do some more searches with those words to see what that will bring me.
Thanks too for that link of the scrapmetal yard in Amsterdam but that is very car focused and I'm looking for the scrapmetalyards that do not discriminate. Every metal is welcome.

@ Bob
Thanks for your description of the metal yards you visited and the fun fact is that it exactly mirrors what I'm looking for. Except for a railway line and loading platform. I am however looking into buying the bridge crane that Verlinden now offers. I think that would be perfect for loading trucks. What in battletorn Germany probably the best method of transport at the time was.
And yeah further precisely as you mentioned. I'm thinking of some damaged vehicles like a hummel without the gun and another tank and pretty much buried with all sorts of scrapmetal ranging from Beams and girders to industrial scraps. Old cast iron gates, car parts, corugated metal, Wire, and pretty much every other thing that is metal. and the occasional interesting looking piece of furniture and bathroomfixtures (can't go wrong with a toiletbowl.). I was thinking the idea through a little further and thought it to be a funny idea to use leftover vehicles like an opel Blitz and maybe one or two smaller vehicles to be the workshop and yard vehicles driving around with acetylene torches and chains.

Basically I want it to look like this but with more military stuff in the mix and more random junk:


Or like this... Not even that big and the year is 1946


The feedback has been great so far. Over the course of the next few months I will get my hands on the stuff of Verlindens Panzerwerk and some other stuff from their range... And pillaging the scrapbox (Finally finding a use for all my leftover stuff) And getting everything together for a project of this size.

These pictures actually show quite good what I'm after. Allthough I'm planning to start with two old panzers as base with all sorts of loose stuff piled on top and in between. And well that is just the start of it. Already placed the first order for most of the stuff. Really fun to start collecting all the stuff and it is a great subject to raid the scrapbox to finally use the huge loads of spares I have collected through the years.



If any of you guys know of similar pictures I would love to see them. Even vintage scrapyard photo's are really welcome. Doesn't neccesarily need to contain any panzers.

I got some links for you
http://www.stormbirds.com/recon/images/999007a.jpg

http://www.geschichteinchronologie.ch/2wk/b/1945-03-11-bis-04-09-Kiel-d/kriegsschiffmunition-zur-versenkung-1945.jpg

http://www.geschichteinchronologie.ch/2wk/b/1945-03-11-bis-04-09-Kiel-d/kriegsschiffmunition-zur-versenkung-1945.jpg

http://fundir.org/gallery,cmentarzysko_czolgow,3889,0,0.html

http://i38.tinypic.com/10elshs.jpg

http://www.merte.de/bilder/lhw_lichterfeld-02.jpg

http://tinypic.com/et5opj.jpg

Have also a look to www.Panzer-Archiv.de

Cheers
petrus

Hey Robert, That bridge crane system is still in use at a yard next door here in Ohio. Has an electric/mag to pick up and move scrap. Didn't think of it till I saw your pics. Now as I'm writing this I remember one here in Indiana too with a claw. Some of the vehicals used to haul cutting torchs around have been vans or cars with the roofs torched off. I have even seen platforms made up for a fork lift (small beam supports with decking and a metal box welded to it for tanks ) that get dropped of to cut up stuff. Interesting side note, some yards have an area where they store stuff, like the side of the office, that they just keep for what ever reason ( owner likes it? ) like broken statues, large bells and even a airplane fusalage. Weird what people collect aint it. One other thing I forgot to mention, in chilly weather, still today, the old 55 gallon drum with wood fire to warm up the crews. Don't forget the dog house for the security junk yard dog. lol!

@ Peter
Thanks a lot for those pictures... There are so many small details in those pictures that I love and want to include into the diorama. Can't wait to get started on it. Also that Panzer Archive is a little goldmine. Can't believe I did not had that site already in my favorites

@ Bob
I was actually thinking of adjusting Verlindens Bridgecrane to fit it with a device for lifting metal out of truckbeds. But would they already work with magnets in the mid 40's or would they use a tried and tested claw?
I like the suggestions you mentioned from your visits to junkyards and a lot of them are perfectly turned to 1945 themed items. I like the stove, The Junkyard dog and his doghouse. The weird trophies and easily sellable items etc. The cut up cars (ex military) to carry acetylene torches and other materials of use in the cutting up of the Metals. The platforms etc. Would they be made of pallets? To easily drive about with a Forklift?
On the subject of pallets.... I need to scratchbuilt a huge load of them.

The more I think of it the more I want to start. At least I have enough stuff already to start building and painting but I first am going to visit a small scrapyard in a village a few KM away. To see and learn first hand. Make some pics. See with my own eyes how a junkyard works.

Another question... Would it be weird for a junkyard to have a garage next to the workshop to service cars from either the company or from civilians?

Hey Robert, not sure when mags came into use but a google search should tell you. As far as unloading trucks, most dump the load out and it gets p/u by claw/mag now or dozzered/bucket to the pile. As for the bridge section you want, the trucks back up to the face of it ( inside the supports along the long side ) dump out and the claw/mag p/u the metal and runs it down the length to a pile or smelting area where it is melted down. Some have areas where the p/u equip. drops it on a conver belt type system and it takes it to that type of metal scrap pile. Some places off load with a mag also, but tricky as the truck trailer bed is metal. Takes a good operator to do this. Though at the local yard, they claw out loads from gondola beds, not dump beds. The platforms I have seen are metal. Channel on the bottom for the forks with steel sheet welded to them with a box device for the tanks and equip. Though I would hazzard a guess that a pallet could be used also if set up to hold cutting tanks. A garage is usually around to service the yards equipment and trucks that come in loaded and breakdown. Lots of tools around, wrenchs, channel locks, screw drivers, bolt cutters ect. Can't have them taking up room to dump or wasting time. Never seen them work on private vehicals either but it would not suprize me. Also I forgot ( so much stuff at these places ) a few large tanks for desiel and gas fuel and hydrolic fluid too. Hopes this overload of info helps. Someone makes wood pallets, you could p/u a set and cast them. Or p/u a set from the R/R section at your L.H.S. bob d.

Overload? I wouldn't think so.. You don't know half how glad I am with the feedback. Maybe not all the stuff is suitable for the size of Junkyard I'm planning but still there is a lot in there that is. The sturdier platforms made from sheetmetal and channel sounds perfectly well. Easy to create as well.
The tanks with fuel and such was a detail that also went through my mind and actually wanted to scratchbuilt a setup that was on a farmyard where I used to work in my youth. Big tank on a wooden structure standing inside a sort of open top container for eventual leaks.
The reason for the question of the garage being next to it is that I have two sets of the same industrial building which I'm planning to have side by side. One worksho. The other a garage like building.

I just realised another thing,. This project is going to be one big hairsprayfest.

Salü Robert

most of the scrapyards on countryside had been quite small, also in the larger villages or cities - here more in the outskirts - even up to the early 60' ies it was possible to find war relicts like Opel Blitz or Kuebelwagen as scrap or still in use.
Some of the guys also had a gasoline station and were also coal dealers - and even heavy weapons could be found - I heard of an 8.8 which was hidden under other scrap, also there was sometimes the problem that sharp ammunition appeared (there was a story of finding ammunition and weapons like panzerfaust about 3 - 4 years ago in a little town in the near I grow up) - so as you see everything was possible in the years after the war ...
Cheers
Peter

@ Petrus
Thanks for your input. That is some really good information. Slowly but surely it forms in my head. I kinda like the setup of the picture I posted earlier. The scrapyard with the white building in front. With the pathways between the scrappiles. I particularly like the gasstation thingy. I actually have a vintage gas pump from Verlinden and also the coal selling. have to see how I can fit that in in the grand scheme of things.
I'm going to see what I have in my "never finished" pile at home to see what I can hide on my scrapyard