AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Hard Edge Camo Help
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 12:09 AM UTC
How do you achieve hard edge camo when using an airbrush?
slodder
North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 12:14 AM UTC
I use a good mask. I use painters tape/masking tape. I usually put a piece of tape on a cutting matt. Then with a sharp knife I cut edge shapes I'm looking for into the tape. I apply the mask to the kit. This usually just gives me the edges of the overall shape, then I back fill with bits and pieces of tape or paper.
Spray, let try, carefully remove - or repeat for the next color.
Spray, let try, carefully remove - or repeat for the next color.
Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 12:49 AM UTC
I use blue poster tack, it is flexible allowing your to get around odds shape if needed. I usually cut paper or plastic wrap to the desired shape then use the blue tack around the edges. You can also get a softer edge if needed by angling the the airbrush.
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 01:34 AM UTC
Thanks guys. I've had no luck with using tape. I'll be going to the hardware store, today and will pick up some blue tack along with copper wire.
panzerbob01
Louisiana, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 08:07 AM UTC
Tape and blue tack have worked for me... But at a club build last weekend I learned about a different approach... There is a "wax" sheet-product used in science labs for covering test-tubes and plates called "Para-film". It's a sort of modified "candle wax" sheet which can stretch and fit around and over stuff, and is mildly adhesive (grips, but does not glue or leave residue on, a surface). A guy uses this stuff to mask patterns on his plane kits. They looked really nice, and the stuff is easy to work with. You can stretch it out and cut patterns "on the board" and then apply it, or form it by stretching and shoving and balling it up right in place. I'm going to try it out myself pretty soon.
Para-film comes on paper backing in rolls - 2 inch x 250 feet, or 4 inch x 125 feet - and is available in mail-order places (Google Para-film) and via catalog sales in lab and industry supply houses. IF you know a science teacher in a HS or college, he/she may be able to grab a sample for you to try...
Bob
Para-film comes on paper backing in rolls - 2 inch x 250 feet, or 4 inch x 125 feet - and is available in mail-order places (Google Para-film) and via catalog sales in lab and industry supply houses. IF you know a science teacher in a HS or college, he/she may be able to grab a sample for you to try...
Bob
pseudorealityx
Georgia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 10:51 AM UTC
I remember using Para-film for modeling back in the mid 90's in my first time through the hobby as a kid. Our local hobby shop carries it, but I haven't gotten any, and have been using blue painters tape. I recall it working fairly well.
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 11:46 AM UTC
I picked up some blue tack, today. I've head of parafilm, but wasn't sure how complex of a corner it would mask without lifting.
SSGToms
Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 02:36 PM UTC
In addition to parafilm, you can also get frisket film, very similar, at any art store, in 8x10 sheets.
I've had my very best results with poster putty though ( blue tak ) . It is made by many different manufacturers in different colors and can be found at the dollar store. I don't recommend Silly Putty, as it slowly creeps while it's on the model, and if it gets in a PE screen, just throw the putty out with the part, it's a lost cause.
I've had my very best results with poster putty though ( blue tak ) . It is made by many different manufacturers in different colors and can be found at the dollar store. I don't recommend Silly Putty, as it slowly creeps while it's on the model, and if it gets in a PE screen, just throw the putty out with the part, it's a lost cause.
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 04:03 PM UTC
I bought a roll of frisket film. Turned out to be garbage. I'm going with poster putty and cling wrap. I'll be using it on my KT as an experiment.
mimeda
Wisconsin, United States
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Posted: Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 12:45 PM UTC
Hello:
I use the 3M blue tape intended for painting that you can get in any hardware store such as Menards, Home Depot, etc...
This is an example of the results:
I used to use Tamiya's tape but find it more suitable for small details like painting cockpits on planes. Another good alternative though not sure if still available is 3M #811 tape, very low adhesion, will never lift the paint.
Mirko
I use the 3M blue tape intended for painting that you can get in any hardware store such as Menards, Home Depot, etc...
This is an example of the results:
I used to use Tamiya's tape but find it more suitable for small details like painting cockpits on planes. Another good alternative though not sure if still available is 3M #811 tape, very low adhesion, will never lift the paint.
Mirko
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 01:29 PM UTC
Cutting the tape to my normal camo patterns would usually take at least 2 hours. Plus, I have noticed some overspray on complex corners and detail.
warreni
South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 01:48 PM UTC
All I use is paper matt. I cut the paper out to the shapes I require, hold them against the item and spray away!
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 02:34 PM UTC
Paper gets me to thinking. I may try aluminum foil. I can mask the aread I want and it will hold its' shape. I should work well on corners, too.
firstcircle
England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 01:25 AM UTC
Frisket film??? Try toothpaste .
Basecoat + toothpaste mask 1:
Brown coat added:
Toothpaste mask 2:
Green coat added:
All toothpaste washed off:
Reverse dots added by hand, stamped with a cocktail stick:
Completed:
This is 1/76 scale, so you can see a nice hard edge is possible, any shape you can paint. Advantage I think over blue tack is that the toothpaste layer is very thin so there is no danger of a soft shadow effect. Notice also here there is layering of more than one mask. Just make sure the paint isn't too thin and you're not blasting the toothpaste at too high pressure, otherwise you may start to wash it away too early. After the paint is all dry, just wash it off with a soft paint brush and water. Once you crack the paint surface the water dissolves the paste away easily.
Here is another example done the same way:
Basecoat + toothpaste mask 1:
Brown coat added:
Toothpaste mask 2:
Green coat added:
All toothpaste washed off:
Reverse dots added by hand, stamped with a cocktail stick:
Completed:
This is 1/76 scale, so you can see a nice hard edge is possible, any shape you can paint. Advantage I think over blue tack is that the toothpaste layer is very thin so there is no danger of a soft shadow effect. Notice also here there is layering of more than one mask. Just make sure the paint isn't too thin and you're not blasting the toothpaste at too high pressure, otherwise you may start to wash it away too early. After the paint is all dry, just wash it off with a soft paint brush and water. Once you crack the paint surface the water dissolves the paste away easily.
Here is another example done the same way:
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 01:48 AM UTC
Toothpaste is dear to me. I did find out that aluminum foil is a bad idea. A really bad idea. I had to take the interior out of the turret and repaint it.
Isn't toothpaste a bit messy?
I'm going to cut some stenciles, today. Just stars. Will let you guys know what works best.
Isn't toothpaste a bit messy?
I'm going to cut some stenciles, today. Just stars. Will let you guys know what works best.
firstcircle
England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 02:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Isn't toothpaste a bit messy?
Um, not really.
Just squeeze out what you need as you need it. Make sure you have the model mounted in a way that means you don't have to touch it. Try to use a colour that will show up on the surface so you don't lose track of it. It takes some artistry to apply it in the pattern you want - but that is always the case with masks and stencils. . . . and it all cleans up with plain water . . . honest.
imatanker
Maine, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 11:02 PM UTC
Matt,this sounds like a great idea! This may sound funny but what type of toothpaste do you use?I'm thinking regular paste,not gell,with no grit in it?Jeff......P.S.I never thought I'd be talking about toothpaste on a military modeling site) Jeff
firstcircle
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Posted: Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 11:58 PM UTC
Jeff, I have used both regular and gel - the Jagdpanzer below is regular, while the Mark I tank was blue minty gel. I think the gel was better actually, because it is a bit stiffer and doesn't dissolve quite as easily, so less danger of the paint starting to dissolve it if things get too wet when airbrushing (as if any of us would allow that to happen.... )
One thing to consider is the colour basecoat you're applying the toothpaste on top of - so go for a colour that will show up. It tends to get a bit transparent when applied thinly. I don't think grit / no grit makes much difference - but on the Mark I I did have to remove all of the glittery minty starts out of the Colgate Shrek Gel.
It is a bit sticky, so some care is needed when applying it, I found it best to kind of dab / work it on with a small brush; I guess if doing a large scale model you could apply the broad areas with a big brush, then do the edges with the finer brush.
One thing to consider is the colour basecoat you're applying the toothpaste on top of - so go for a colour that will show up. It tends to get a bit transparent when applied thinly. I don't think grit / no grit makes much difference - but on the Mark I I did have to remove all of the glittery minty starts out of the Colgate Shrek Gel.
It is a bit sticky, so some care is needed when applying it, I found it best to kind of dab / work it on with a small brush; I guess if doing a large scale model you could apply the broad areas with a big brush, then do the edges with the finer brush.
imatanker
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2011 - 12:41 AM UTC
Nice,Now the next question,will the toothpaste attack acrylic paint ,or do you seal between coats?Jeff
firstcircle
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2011 - 02:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...will the toothpaste attack acrylic paint ,or do you seal between coats?
Well... I use it on my teeth and gums, so it's not that corrosive. Remember, unlike with your teeth, you're not going to be scrubbing it up and down on the paintwork for two minutes with a stiff nylon brush. I couldn't vouch for that toothpaste that has sodium bicarb in it as I don't use it, all I can say is that I didn't seal the paint with anything first, and never had any problem with the acrylic paint lifting or being damaged. The examples shown were first primed with acrylic automotive primer and then painted with Tamiya acrylics.
You can see on the photo headed "Brown paint added" that on the nose of the vehicle, the tiny dots of paste have got a bit washed by the paint and started to dissolve a little, which is why they appear white rather than brown - but you can see from the result at the end that this wasn't enough to spoil things, and that was with pretty thinned down paint, probably impatiently sprayed in several coats without waiting for each one to dry, and look at how small each dot of toothpaste is - this is braille scale remember.
Removed by original poster on 11/25/11 - 20:27:37 (GMT).
imatanker
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2011 - 08:37 AM UTC
I'm going to give it a run on some scrap 1/35 stuff and see what happens.Jeff P.S. Matt N. I did not intend to hi-jack your thread,I just thought it sounded like a good idea and wanted more info.
retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2011 - 01:29 PM UTC
Jeff: I'm not too strict about my threads. This is a site to learn new techniques and I appreciate everyone's opinion. So, if you see something in one of my threads and want to run with go ahead. If it gets too far off, I will restate the purpose of the thread.
plstktnkr2
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2011 - 01:34 PM UTC
I do not know if it's available world-wide but a product called "SillyPutty", comes in an "egg" on a card. cheap, effective. you roll it out put it on after an hour, cut your pattern and shoot. comes off easy,
retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2011 - 01:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I do not know if it's available world-wide but a product called "SillyPutty", comes in an "egg" on a card. cheap, effective. you roll it out put it on after an hour, cut your pattern and shoot. comes off easy,
I tried silly putty. I didn't work cause nobody mentioned you have to let it dry. I'll try that tomorrow.