How are ring turret-mounted machine guns belt-fed from the ammo can? Is the top lid of the ammo can left open to show the bullets inside as they feed into the machine gun, or is the lid closed and there's a slot on the side for the belt to come out of?

I ask because there seems to be a lot of plastic and resin companies that make closed ammo cans and hardly any that make them open to show the ammo inside. Is there a need to make them open? And yet the only open-top ammo cans belong to DML's "Fire Support Weapons Set" of 7.62mm, 12.7mm, and 40mm? What's up with that?

(Yes, I could drape a 200-round belt of 7.62mm ammo from the MG. However, I don't think that's quite a good idea to have the belt hanging over the heads of the driver and passenger, correct?).

Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!

I believe that when the ammo can is mounted on the gun, they open the top, load the gun, and then close the top down on the belt to keep weather and dirt out of it....the top obviously doesn't close completely, leaving it cracked enough to allow the belt to feed out of it.

Would be easy to do with some of the PE ammo cans....not so easy with plastic and resin ones.

All depends on the weapon system and time frame. I never saw the ammo can lid retained when the rounds went into the weapon. Why induce the possibility of a malfunction with a part that doesn't need to be there. As a result, it does become a gunners responsibility to not only clean his weapons, but also his ammunition. After missions, if it wasn't used my belts would be pulled from my ammo can and dusted off with a big paint brush, links oiled if they were getting a little rusty and any oiled removed from the actual ammunition, especially for the .50. For the Mk-19 and 40mm grenades you have to be especially congnicent of your ammunition as those links need to be perfectly aligned otherwise it will cause a weapons malfunction.

For example, mounts exist in the US military supply system for virtually every weapon we have. That does not mean you will have that mount where you are however. I will use the M240 as an example, there is a mount that has an ammo can bracket on it. There is also another mount that just essentially bolts the gun into the mount with no provision for any type of ammo stowage. Our work around was to bungee cord the ammo can to the pedestal, we also had the Afghan's fabircate us some very rough mounts which worked alright but most didn't use them.

As to the ammo can's, we'll stick with the 240. 7.62mm NATO ammunition comes in 200 round wax coated cardboard boxes inside of a fabric bag. There are two of these per can. To allow for these to fit, the ammo can is a bit wider than the actual cartridges and when they are linked all together out of the bags, they fall forward a bit. Usually doesn't matter but I don't trust Murphy that much so for my go to ammo can I used some quarter in ply wood and liquid nails to glue it to the inside of the can so they fed smoother into my gun. I've also seen this done for linked 5.56 to feed out of a 7.62mm ammo can.

Typically with the Mk93 mounts currently used by, you can set up the ammo can bracket to feed either .50 cal or 40mm grenades. What we did is cut the top part of the bracket, then load up around 200 rounds of .50 cal into a 40mm 32 grenade round ammo can. I saw some use the 48 round Mk19 can's but I never felt it prudent as the weight of all that .50 cal ammo put too much of a strain on the Mk93 mount and I saw them buckle under the weight.

I'm not sure if that makes any sense or answers your question, but I'll try to illustrate these examples a bit better with some pictures in a bit.

Steve

This shows a 40mm 48 round ammo can being used for .50 caliber machine gun ammo. The crew had locals weld up an extension to the ammo box bracket.



This is my turret in a MaxxPro, you can see the .50 cal ammo just fed straight into the gun, no covers. Also, where that water bottle is, wedged between the joystick and turret wall. That is where my 7.62mm 200 round ammo can went when my M240B was eagle mounted in the mount above it. Also take not of the different colors of the ammo cans. The darkest OD can there is .50 caliber API from 1952.



My .50 with API/API-T fed out of a 32 round 40mm ammo can in a Mk 93 mount. Typically the bracket has the horizontal rib cut away to facilitate reloading. Also note the single .50 caliber round at the rear of the gun, that is the safety.



My first eagle mounted M240B may she rest in pieces. The belt fed from the aforementioned ammo can and just hung there. It got incredibly dirty so needed cleaning often, however we tended to go through a lot of it so I generally never had the need to clean it.



This is my M249 SAW that I used after we had to turn in our 240's. For this i just fed out of a 100 round nutsack that attached to the gun. For reloads I used straight 200 round plastic boxes or more 100 round nutsacks if I absolutely had to.

That particular belt that I'm shooting was my contact belt of 100 rounds of straight tracers.



This a a 40mm grenade machine gun Mk-19. No one does the ammo can for this correct. The grenades are packed between two foam pads, and each layer of the belt is seperated from one another by solid foam rods cut to the length of a 40mm grenade. When you fire it these rods go flying everywhere as the belt is fed into the gun. 40mm belts are very temperamental.



This is what happens when the 40mm ammo does not feed properly.

Great photos: thank you

Now if only someone would do decent flexible belts in 1/35.
Plastic ones are too fragile and PE is too flat....

Steve

thanks for those......incredibly useful information - superb photos - thanks for the insights!

Great photos, thanks! I see you are working in MaxxPro... any chance of detailed walkaround of the vehicle? Many of us have Legend kit in the mail and the good detailed references of the vehicle are not easy to find.

Mario

Steve,

Thanks for the helpful photos! Your photos confirmed my suspicions that ammo is fed from an open-top can.

I cannot believe that for years no one has made plastic or resin open-topped ammo cans with links sticking out and bracket cradles. So are you saying that most of the built models out there have MGs that aren't being fed by ammo even if a closed can is next to them?

Sean, good point and yes indeed we need them.

crew served and individual weapons are often the most innacurate part of most of the models I see. I'll see what I can do for some MaxxPro pictures, though for a comprehensive walk around I would recommend reaching out to 18Bravo on this site and buying one of his DVD's.

To be more specific, what are you trying to build and what weapons are you mounting. Perhaps we can be of more help if you specify what you're trying to accomplish.

Y'know, I gotta think that seeing these sort of dents in the contact surface of a live grenade as you remove it from the gun can't be your favourite part of any day...

Paul

Meh, it's kinda like carrying live frags, after awhile you just get used to it. I also did not use the Mk-19 very often. Hated that weapon, unreliable POS. My .50's weren't much better, but once you got one to run it would just work.

Steve, good pics, write up and all. Good point you brought up about the can lids. Academy makes a 1/35th cal. 50 and 30 weapon set that will address the problem, w.w.2 & modern. Comes with tripod, open and closed, and vehical mounts for tanks, plus decals for the ammo cans. Some of the ammo cans can be built open or closed for either 50/30. They also have ammo belts for them that fit pretty good though I have not tried to bend a set yet to fit. The Tamiya U.S. weapons set (ww2) has ammo belts that I have bent using slight amounts of pressure and a round paint bruh. They stand up pretty good to bending and hold the shape well enough. I have used the Tamiya 30 cal. for M-60's and look o.k. for scale belts. The D.M.L. ones tend to snap apart, but if you heat them slightly they should work. Only problem is the flash (D.M.L.& Tamiya)between the bullets, P.I.T.A. to clean up. The Academy ones are the cleanest I've seen to date. So with all this said, put your belts in the Academy cans and leave them open towards the left, or just leave them glued on the left side and sitting on top of the belt while in fed position to your weapons. Hope this helps some. bob d.

Bob,

Could you please post a pic of the Academy set you're referring to? I think there's an old set in which like 70% of the weapons don't suit modern modelers.

Steve, I'm trying to feed a Merkava M240(?) machine gun from Academy's Merkava 2 kit. The only open can I have is from DML's "Modern Fire Support Set." I could just plop down a closed can in the tray...or have a belt hanging from the feed opening.

Is there a SOP to have the cans in the mounts closed and then load the guns before battle? I'd think if there's a can in the bracket mount, logic would have the belt inside the gun.

Interesting to see the darker OD .50 can alongside others. One would think all .50 cans are the same color.

I can't speak for the Izzies, however I am intimately familiar with the M240/FN Mag. I don't know how the Izzies do things, but open cans just don't work well, the top is likely just fall off when it's not latched down. I would not trust it personally, KISS can save your life some times and the less moving things near my gun and it's belt the better, but that's just me.

My SOP was always that we covered the guns with a tarp if we had one, if we did then the ammo stayed in place, not ammo can cover. If we didn't have a tarp then the ammo can's came down and went inside the truck locked up with everything else. It's just another level of maintenance, ensure you ammo is linked properly, rounds are clipped in properly, no rust on your links, no corrosion on your brass, and you have as much dust and dirt off your ammo as possible. They just become part of your PCI's before missions.

I would go with a PE ammo can, ditch the lid and then add some belted ammo running to the gun.

As to ammo cans, keep in mind we have ammo from WWII we are still expending. You will find ammo cans from the 50's, 60's, and on and on. Then you get ammo from different manufacturers, various lots etc.. The colors vary constantly especially for .50 cal. 7.62 and 40mm was more consistent.

Sorry but I can't post pics, computer wont accept the disc for camera download and I'm to dumb to figure it out. The kit # is AA425 / #1384. Try and look it up on site and see how modern it is, could be not so modern as far as I know, not my field of expertize and don't want to stear you wrong, maybe a few years old as far as modern goes. Copyright on instruction sheet is from 2003. Sorry I can't be of more help than that. bob d.

I do.

http://www.armscorpsmodels.com.au/ACM35868.html
http://www.armscorpsmodels.com.au/ACM35869.html

Cheers Jason

Interesting, those look excellent. Especially the .50 cal belts. Do you ship to the states?

Steve

Thanks Steve. And yes I do ship to the US. [email protected]
You might also be interested in knowing, that I am working on the 40mm liners and ammo.

Peter, PM sent.
Thanks Jason

Interesting, email sent my friend!