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Confused over Russian Uniforms
Achee74
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 05:55 AM UTC
Hey guys,

I just notice that Tank's T-35068 (Russian modern soldier w/RPG-7.
Winter, Chechnya 1993-04) is using a very different uniform than it's T-35069 (Russian modern soldiers w/SVD and PK. Winter, Chechnya 1993-04). Was the 35068 uniform used in the winter?

Thanks
Alex

Maki
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 12:54 PM UTC
What's the difference between two uniforms? Are you thinking of the cut or the camo pattern?

Mario
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 02:03 PM UTC
Hi it would help if you could post up a scan of the box art from both kits . Then a more definate answer can be given . Russia has 3 basic uniforms tropical , standard and winter all are cut on different styles . But then it gets complicated as there are over 20 cammo patterns used and now they have introduced digital cammo .
For all things russian i use englishrussia.com and search out the army photos . be aware it has a bit of light nudety but nothing you would not see on a tropical beach . cheers ian
Maki
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 02:40 PM UTC
The uniforms in both kits are, as far as I can tell, typical winter uniforms Russians used in Chechnya... it consists of lined jacket and trousers. I think the only difference between kits is the boxart which is painted differently. The soldier with RPG sports earlier model which were issued in tan color, while later variants were camouflaged in TTsKO or VSR pattern, which were later replaced by Flora camouflage pattern.

Mario
Achee74
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 02:41 PM UTC
Hi guys,

well basically 2 figures sets has the winter jacket on, while the single set does not, but both sets are named as to be during the winter in chechnya...?

Alex
Maki
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 02:48 PM UTC
I think both sets have winter jacket, the single figure doesn't have jacket lining with fur collar.

Mario
Achee74
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 02:57 PM UTC
Thanks Mario!
Karl187
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Posted: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 - 11:15 PM UTC
Alex, uniforms worn in Chechnya are a hodge podge of different camouflages but there are really only two main styles- winter and summer- both are cut identically apart from the inner lining. I believe these are the two figures you are talking about:





I am of the opinion that the figure with the RPG is wearing a standard summer issue uniform. Look at this picture:



Note that while the camouflage scheme is differing the cut of the uniform is identical and the collar is of normal, thin material. The TANK figure's collar is fairly well obscured by the bulky Flak and Assault Vest but the winter uniform collar is a lot bigger and was usually worn up around the lower cheeks even when wearing an assault vest. Another thing that makes me believe the RPG figure is one depicted in summer is the lack of hat under his helmet. Most soldiers in winter in Chechnya wore some sort of hat either instead of a helmet or underneath it, the RPG figure doesn't whereas the double figure set both wear hats.





As you see on these pictures the fur collar is quite noticeable even with a flak/assault vest over the top of the jacket. Also note the cut is pretty much identical to the summer uniform with the arm pocket in the same place and of the same size.

In terms of camouflage schemes there were quite a few that the above styles of uniform carried- I find this website to be of good use in determining colors:

http://www.kamouflage.net/country/00156.php

In the early 2000s, while troops were still deployed to Chechnya, new styles of uniform, both in terms of cut and camouflage, were being seen although the old cut is still around.

Good luck.
Maki
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Posted: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 12:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Alex, uniforms worn in Chechnya are a hodge podge of different camouflages but there are really only two main styles- winter and summer- both are cut identically apart from the inner lining.



Thanks for an elaborate reply Karl. Russian uniforms are quite interesting to study... However I still feel the RPG figure wears winter uniform. First, it looks bulky as if it was made of heavy cotton blend, typical for winter unifoms. Also, the fur collar was a part of jacket lining, so if the lining was removed the large collar would not be evident.

I agree though, it would be strange to omit the lining of the jacket during the cold months in Chechnya. And it was common practice to wear the collar up over the Flak vest. So, I'm not completely sure... but as I said, the bulky feel of the material with shallow folds sculpted on the RPG figure makes me think it is still a winter variant.

Mario
Achee74
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Posted: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 10:58 AM UTC
Hi Karl & Mario,

Thanks for the heads up, I think I will get the Tank's Russian Modern Tank officer as an alternate to the single figure. I beleive a change of head will do..

Alex
Karl187
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Posted: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 09:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Alex, uniforms worn in Chechnya are a hodge podge of different camouflages but there are really only two main styles- winter and summer- both are cut identically apart from the inner lining.



Thanks for an elaborate reply Karl. Russian uniforms are quite interesting to study... However I still feel the RPG figure wears winter uniform. First, it looks bulky as if it was made of heavy cotton blend, typical for winter unifoms. Also, the fur collar was a part of jacket lining, so if the lining was removed the large collar would not be evident.

I agree though, it would be strange to omit the lining of the jacket during the cold months in Chechnya. And it was common practice to wear the collar up over the Flak vest. So, I'm not completely sure... but as I said, the bulky feel of the material with shallow folds sculpted on the RPG figure makes me think it is still a winter variant.

Mario



You make a good point Mario. The folds of the clothes on the RPG figure really do look very bulky and thick when compared to photos of the rather thin summer uniform.
Personally speaking I think either Masterclub or TANK should do some more modern Russians obviously dressed for summer- like t-shirts under their flak/assault vests etc.

I think Russian uniforms are a bit too interesting at times- there are a lot of different camouflages and styles, plenty of food for the modeller's brain though!
Maki
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Posted: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 09:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Personally speaking I think either Masterclub or TANK should do some more modern Russians obviously dressed for summer- like t-shirts under their flak/assault vests etc.



Have you seen Rest Models offering... one of their sets depicts Company 9 from Afghanistan. Pretty cool BTR riders: link...
but I don't want to get off topic.

Mario
Karl187
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Posted: Friday, December 09, 2011 - 12:37 AM UTC
Thanks for that link Mario.
afv_rob
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Posted: Friday, December 09, 2011 - 01:03 AM UTC
I think you will find that the TANK RPG figure is wearing the M88 'Afghanka' jacket. Notice that it features the reinforced stitching around the elbows (albeit rather to prominent on this sculpting) which the newer summer BDU does not feature. These jackets were still very much in use during the 1995 conflict, the war which this figure seems to best fit into due to the fact as well that he wears the slightly earlier pattern flak vest which doesn't have the buckle fastenings at the sides.

In my opinion the other set of TANK figures with the PKM and SVD wear the VSR jacket in flora camouflage with the removable winter lining.

The Masterclub modern Russians marching and sitting on the BMP all appear to wear the heavy winter parka which can be seen in Karls final picture. The winter parka is characterised by the integral fur lining and high collar (which seems to feature the zigzag stitching on the outside). I think that the winter parka was eventually issued in flora camouflage as well, but most troops in the first Chechen war seem to only wear the tan coloured version.
Karl187
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Posted: Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 12:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think you will find that the TANK RPG figure is wearing the M88 'Afghanka' jacket. Notice that it features the reinforced stitching around the elbows (albeit rather to prominent on this sculpting) which the newer summer BDU does not feature. These jackets were still very much in use during the 1995 conflict, the war which this figure seems to best fit into due to the fact as well that he wears the slightly earlier pattern flak vest which doesn't have the buckle fastenings at the sides.

In my opinion the other set of TANK figures with the PKM and SVD wear the VSR jacket in flora camouflage with the removable winter lining.

The Masterclub modern Russians marching and sitting on the BMP all appear to wear the heavy winter parka which can be seen in Karls final picture. The winter parka is characterised by the integral fur lining and high collar (which seems to feature the zigzag stitching on the outside). I think that the winter parka was eventually issued in flora camouflage as well, but most troops in the first Chechen war seem to only wear the tan coloured version.



Thanks for that Rob. I believe I have a picture of a soldier wearing a winter parka in Flora, I'll try and find it for you.
afv_rob
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Posted: Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 04:28 AM UTC
Yes I think some flora winter parkas where issued, but the tan one seems to be the most popular. The few pics I've seen of them seem to be worn by officers. Of course by the second Chechen war these appear to be more popular. Russian military uniforms are such a confusing subject. Only now does it seem the Russian army are adopting more standardised uniforms.
Karl187
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Posted: Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 05:33 AM UTC
As far as I can tell some Flora ones were issued during the first Chechen war but it was limited. In the 94-96 war you tend to see a lot of Tan but also Russian Forest, the bluey color Ten, Tigr, and quite a few patterns of TsV- and I think this is basically just supplies being all over the place at the time. Tan was standard issue in Afghanistan and there was probably a good surplus of it, hence you see lots of soldiers wearing it:







However, if you look at these pictures you can see a hodge podge of different camouflages:





All the pictures above, according to the source, are from the 94-96 war. Thats where you tend to see lots of different camouflages being worn. But these ones below are from 2003 and show mostly Flora being worn (albeit in different hues and variations), as you said Rob it looks like they were standardising much more even back then compared to 94-96.







I believe these are pictures from the 94-96 war showing Flora being worn- this is pretty much the only ones I could find! I also can't confirm if they really are from the first war or not but it looks like they are.






Apologies for our digressions Alex- like I said, this subject is sometimes a bit too interesting, it just kind of sucks you in!
Achee74
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Posted: Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 04:56 PM UTC
Hi Karl,

No need to apologise, actually need to thank you for the wonderful informations. Keep them coming if u do have anything else.. To all these, how were the officers dress code as?

Secondly, has anyone directly purchased from Rest Models? I wrote to them asking them about the shipping with registered postage, but have not gottten any reply from them..

Cheers
Alex
Maki
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Posted: Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 07:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Secondly, has anyone directly purchased from Rest Models? I wrote to them asking them about the shipping with registered postage, but have not gottten any reply from them.



Alex, I know Hobby Easy carries Rest Models line of figures: http://www.hobbyeasy.com

Never ordered directly from Rest though, sorry.

Mario
Achee74
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Posted: Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 08:46 PM UTC
Hi Mario,

Thanks for the info, found out that Hobbyeasy is currently out of stocks for these 2 kits.

Have written to them as well to when they might be restocking these.

Alex
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