Not sure if this was the proper place to post this, but as I will definatly buid it if I can find out what it is and more pics.
Anyways , I will assume that a good share of german armor modellers have a copy of Tony Greenlands "Panzer Modelling Masterclass" , if you do and it is the second edition , at the bottom of page 37 , is a vehicle that he has scratched and is amazing, but he never identifies. Anyone have a clue.
I think it is either a pziv or the sprockets almost suggest the pziii/pziv hybrid used under the hummel, hornisse/nashorn but it is rear engined instead of mid.
It also seems like it might be a Relative? of the heuschreke as it appears to use an intact field mounting/gun shield and looks to be carrying the wheels for the carriage on the rear deck.
So if anyone can positively identify this, with nomenclature etc. it would be greatly appreciated and any reference material or at least the location of good reference would be great as well.

If Anyone does have the book and are smart enough to scan the picture in and add it in this thread that would be a big help as well , i scanned it in but not computer savvy enough to understand how to upload it.

Hello,
welcome to the site !
I can't help with the identification of the vehicle but for uploading pics, it's quite easy in fact.
Under your Armorama account you have a gallery (thumbnail photos), you log you in with same ID as for the site and go to your pictures/your albums and click upload a picture.
When it's done, you will have to select one of the links and copy/paste it to your message between the IMG marks that you insert simply by clicking the IMG button on the right of message box.

Olivier

Here is the image:



He calls it a Panzer jager but the gun looks much more like a 105 to me???

hi guys it is the following unit

leFH18/40/2 (sf) auf G.W. Pz.Kpfw.III/IV

http://www.dragon-models.com/html/6710poster.htm

a new model just recently announced by Dragon

and guess who the tech assistant was

Mr Greenland !!!

if i remember rightly only one or two were ever made i will have to
check my books

cheers

It's a Self-Propelled Howitzer.

Some information here

Some pics :





Frenchy

AWESOME! Finally have posted this question on quite a few websites to no avail.
I was planning to start a scratch build, but I sometimes think that Dragon can read my mind, everytime I think about a scratch or a conversion, they release the kit.Good for me huh?
Now I need them to release a sdkfz 251/2 mortar carrier and a 251 ambulance.
Followed by trumpeter releasing the dora gun for around 1/10 th eprice of the aoshima.But enough dreaming.
You say this is a coming release or is already.
Guys I sincerely appreciate the help, now any other photos, I will begin my websearch.
jim

Scott,
Thanks for uploading the picture. I was hoping I could count on someone to bail me out.
It is a 10.5 howitzer,.the upper picture is the one referred to as a panzerjaeger and it is. This is interior of the marder3 with russian 76.2 (sdkfz 139) that got me for a few minutes at first too, but as I have the Tamiya Marder kit I figured it out pretty quick.

wow information on this is scarce , according to an entry on search .com under pziv variants , 8 prototypes were built and sent to the eastern front for testing. According to the Dragon usa site , no vehicles were "eventuated"?, I assume this meant past the prototypes as there is obviously pictures to be found. Anyone able to verify or disprove this?
I am confused Search.com refers to it as sdkfz 165/1 , but a web search only brings back results for the heuschreke , but that is the next entry in their list? What the heck!.
I suppose it is possible as it was a competing design that it shared a nomenclature refering to the design order instead of the finished vehicle, but I thought with german effeciancy it would have a seperate/different number

I always knew it as the Heuschreke II. There must be an evaluation report on it was one was captured & has been on display at the IWM & Duxford for many yrs. I would like to see how they were supposed to get the gun off the hull to mount the wheels - to use it on the ground. Seems like yet another armchair-theoretically-good but impractical German idea.

I agree, the standard (or at least better known) heuschreke had the fold down crane to remove the gun ,. the trails and wheels could be manhandled into position using a full gun crew easily , but i don't see anything on this one that could be used or even pils mounts for the jib crane they were trying to fit on everything it seemed. I am not sure what the weight of the gun ,shield and looks like the actual mounting would be, but total weight would be around 4300lbs minus wheels (rough guess 200lbs each) and the trails (again just to be safe say another 200 each) that would still leave 3500 lbs , no way thats getting man handled.
I think this vehicle looks really cool and as I focus primarily on artillery pieces (both towed and self-prop. ,as long as the entire gun is visible, i like it), it will make a fine addition to my showcase.
That said I think the idea, is stupid, what were they thinking? for what reason would the gun be better dismounted (except for alot more room to spread out and work) Blitzkreig was the original shoot and scoot style warfare, so how does a scoot , dismount, assemble, shoot ,disassemble , remount , scoot fit into that? I do realize that these were close to the end and blitkreig was over (at least for the germans) but even then you dismount to defend, you are going to end up abandoning the gun ( unless you win the battle) and I guess you are left with a cool troop transport to adios in?














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hello bison126,
My french is terrible but does the quote of napolean say (the queen of battle, is called the infantry)?
just curious
jim

There are a few pictures in the Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WW2 ( Chamberlain & Doyle ). 2 versions , one by Krupp ( the Grasshopper ) and the one in Frenchy's pictures made by Rheinmetall-Borsig. Looks like the RB ( the one Mr Greenway modelled ) has the gantry parts under sheet metal covers on the fenders , the Krupp version has them exposed ,
I thought these were to be mounted on concrete empalcements , like the Panther turrets in Berlin 45 . The vehicle was just used to move them although they could be fired from the vehicle.
Another huge waste of time and effort not to mention resources, just like that 17cm Grille beast Trumpeter released . The gun on that one was to be winched off onto a turntable for all round traverse . I pity any crew having to fight with these weapons

I agree , I did a three year hitch 82nd airbornes 319 regiment which was the divisions artillery. The artillery mans job is already back breaking, everything is heavy, wether a towed piece, or self prop. tough work. I couldn't imagine taking the unit out of battery on the track and reassembling on the ground , followed by humping rounds.
As for the 17cm, I thought that was a self-prop unit, was it capable of firing from the track , or was the recoil of that massive to much for suspension? that is crazy to have to pull that out.

Hi Jim,
I am by no means an expert, but I do believe the vehicle in the Greenland book depicts the Rheinmetall-Borsig designed Leichter PanzerHaubitze 18/40/2 auf Geschützwagen III/IV (Sf) or in English Self-Propelled Light Howitzer Model 18/40/2 on Tracked Weapons Carriage III/IV. At first glance the references you found do appear contradictory but it is correct. They are speaking of two different vehicle types. The other is the Krupp Designed 10.5cm leFH 18/1L/28 auf Waffenträger GW that was built in competition with the above Deutsche-Eisenwerke (DEW) built vehicle (designed by Rheinmetall-Borsig).

There were 8 prototypes of the Krupp vehicle built and sent to the eastern front for evaluation. Only 1 prototype of the DEW vehicle was built and there is no mention of any combat trials or what became of the vehicle. The DEW vehicle featured a full leFH 18/40 field gun that could be dismounted. The wheels and trails were carried on the vehicle and, when dismounted, it was a normal field gun. This is very different than the Krupp design which was emplaced after dismounting. The two photos that Frenchy posted are the only ones that I know of and appear in "The Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War II", page 114 by Chamberlain/Doyle.

I haven’t seen the DML kit and just heard about it in this post, but it will more than likely be a nice kit. How accurate is anyone’s guess as details about the original are probably pretty thin.

Jim,
it's exact and Napoleon was himself a gunner!

Olivier