Following up on the recent review of the Brass Black solution from Birchwood Casey, here's some good news about the company's Liquid Gun Blue solutions.

The question came up in the earlier review if the Brass Black solution worked on Fruil metal tracks? The original reviewer, Robert Blokker, responded that the Brass Black solution DID NOT work with the Fruils.

However, I happened to have two bottles of the Birchwood Casey Liquid Gun Blue solutions, "Super Blue" and "Perma Blue." I had these from a gun-smithing project and until I read Robert's review, I had never even thought about how they might work on metal tracks.



Both of these products contain the exact same active ingredient - Selenium Dioxide. I assume that the only difference is possibly the concentration of the chemical, and both bottles that I have are (excepting the name) labeled exactly the same, to include the instructions, etc.

To test the liquid gun blue out, I dug up some left over Fruil tracks. I had a nice section of left over Cromwell tracks and a pile of left over Panther tracks. Luckily, several of the left over Panther had already been treated with Blacken-It, so I was able to get a side-by-side comparison of the results.



Here's a close up of the "control" Panther links treated with Blacken-It. The double link section has a single application and the single link has been treated twice. Note that the double-treated link is slightly "reddish" in color. (This was another experiment from another time!)



I immersed the Fruil tracks into the Birchwood Casey "Super Blue" solution for 10 minutes. During this time, I used a small wood stick to agitate the tracks and stir the solution. The liquid gun blue acted pretty much just like the Blacken-It, turning an opaque greenish color as it reacted with the metal.

After 10 minutes, I removed the tracks and rinsed them in ordinary tap water. After drying, here're the results:



And a close up of the same tracks:



The tan-ish colored powder was formed in pretty much all of the nooks and crannies of the tracks, and this is quite different than what I've gotten from using the Blacken-It.

However, an couple of tests with various brushes showed that the powder easily brushes away from most areas:



I actually thought the results from the dry-scrubbing with the tooth brush were pretty pleasing and left the tracks with a pre-weathered look.

However, I did want to see if I could get all of the powdery residue off, so I washed the tracks in water with ordinary dish soap, scrubbing with the same tooth brush. Here're the final results:



And a close up comparison of the control track links (Blacken-It) and the tracks treated with the "Super Blue."



The control track links are on the upper right, the single link and two-link section. And again note that the single control link has been treated twice with Blacken-It.

On the upper left, the two single links have been treated with the liquid gun blue. One (top) has only been dry scrubbed with the tooth brush and the other (bottom) has been dry-scrubbed and then buffed lightly with a bit of 4x0 steel wool. The section of Cromwell track has been dry-scrubbed and then washed with soap and water.

I think the experiment is an unqualified success! I was very pleased with the results and actually found the Birchwood Casey liquid gun blue gave a more completely black-brown finish to the tracks than I usually get with the Blacken-It.

Another advantage is price and availability. Here in the US, Blacken-It can only be found in hobby shops, and not all of them carry it. The retail price is about US$10 for a 4 oz bottle.

On the other hand, the Birchwood Casey "Super Blue" and "Perma Blue" solutions can be found in many places. One bottle that I have came from a large chain "sports store" and the other bottle came from my local Walmart. Each was less than $5 for a 3 oz bottle.

The original review of the Birchwood Casey Brass Black can be found here:

Armorama REVIEW:: Birchwood Casey Brass Black

Thanks to Rober Blokker for the great tip and idea to look for the alternative to Blacken-It!

Happy Modeling,

Mike,
Great experiment. Based on your article, I will have to pick up some Birchwood Casey bluing to go with the Stained Glass lead blackener that I am getting ready to use on my Merkava Tracks... might be just the thing for some additional effects.

See ya in April...

John

Ola Mike

Thanks for showing us the result of your experiment. I was already thinking of buying those bottles as well and now I know it for sure as this works pretty good. The 10 minutes you left the tracks in the Gun Blue, was that the time in which it blackened completely or did you have results in a lesser amount of time?
As you say I was also looking for Blackenit which as I found out is really hard to find here in Holland but the Birchwood casey stuff allthough more expensive then I have seen in the US is more readily available.

I think my batcave will be enriched with a few of the Blue bottles from Birchwood Casey. They are a good solution for aging metals.

Mike,
I hate to burst your bubble. I've been using it for years now (maybe not the same brand) and it's basically the same stuff as blacken-it. Now, I gotta get back downstairs to shake up the house paint I use to airbrush models.
Regards,
Georg

No bubble to burst, George, just trying to share my experience.

I'm sorry you didn't find the information useful, and I hope you don't feel like you wasted your time reading it.

Hi Robert,

Yes, the 10 minutes was the entire time I left the tracks in the solution. They did start to change color almost immediately after I immersed them, so some additional experimenting might be in order to determine if there're various other desirable levels of coloring that can be achieved by changing the amount of soaking time.

Still, I was pleased with the effects of the 10 minute soak, so that's probably my starting point for the next set of tracks that I do.

Thanks again for providing the initial clues about these products.

Cheers,

Thanks Mike for the detailed 'experiment', and thanks Robert for the review. After reading Roberts review for chemically treating brass/copper I immediately thought about gun blue for Friuls too, which I may have left it at only a thought if Mike didn't post his excellent results.

Back in the day (too far back for my memory to be clear) I used to refinish antique weapons and used a gun brown...I'll have to see if that's still available to try out too for a warmer look.

Again...thanks to both of you for sharing the use of more available and price friendly products

And to think I've been sitting on this stuff for years while buying blacken it. You guys ROCK!!!

For what it's worth, their Aluma Black has potential uses as well. Been using them both on guns for years and tried this on T55 Fruil tracks years ago and got the same results. Great post OP, good info to put out there.

I was just getting ready to paint a set of Fruil Tiger tracks. Thanks for the great tip. I will get a bottle of Gun Blue and give it a try. Your results look outstanding.

Has the metal been stable on the links you did not wash? I am wondering if the chemicals would continue to work on the metal and damage it over time.

Hi Al,

When I did take the tracks out of the liquid gun blue solution, I did rinse them in fresh water twice before allowing them to dry for the "un-scrubbed" photo. I just used a couple of plastic cups with water, rinsing the tracks in one and then in the other.

I'm no chemist or metalurgist, but I do think that there's only a certain amount of the active ingredient in the solution. So, once the coloring action has ceased, I'm not sure that there's enough residual chemical left to cause any long-term damage. After the 10 minutes that I left the tracks in the solution, I couldn't see any more change going on, so my guess is that the chemical had pretty much used itself up.

The Birchwood Casey instructions for using the liquid gun blue say to simply apply it and then rinse with cold water, and then repeat as needed to get the color you want. After that, buff with steel wool and apply oil.

So, I'm assuming that if all a fine expensive "shootin' iron" needs is a "rinse with cold water," then the Fruil tracks should be good with the same. Washing and scrubbing with soap and water (I hope!) is all that's needed.

Besides, that's all I've ever done with the Blacken-It, too. Just rinse and wash with soap and water. I've used that for a long time and never found any problems on metal tracks.

This is not to say that I don't think that there is no residual chemical left after the coloring, just that I don't think it's a concern with the metal tracks. This might not be the case with other uses, though...

I did have a compatability issue once with the Blacken-It on some brass rod pins that I colored and used on a bayonet display. The blackened brass pins reacted with either the parkerizing or the steel in the bayonet cross guards and caused some slight surface rust. Long story, but I caught the problem before it caused any serious damage.

At any rate, even with brass wire track pins, I don't think there's any potential long-term issues with the liquid gun blue on the metal tracks, at least no more than with Blacken-It.

A good rinse and soap and water should be enough to stop the chemical reaction, and any residual chemical shouldn't be enough to cause any later problems.

Mike,

Thanks for the great information. I have used the gun blue before and have never had a problem, but that was on steel guns. I was worried that the softer metal of the tracks would be more prone to problems. I didn't have any blue on the shelf to try so I will have to pick some up. This is my very first time using Fruil Tracks but they are going to look great with this technique.

I have only gotten back to modeling in the last few months after being away for 20 years. There are a lot of new ways of doing things and it's been fun to learn.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Al

Good Tip mike, and thanks for experimenting. I was going to suggest the Browning solution as well, but I see you already commented about it in the other thread. I would defiantly like to see results with the “Gun Brown”. I wonder if it would give more of a rust tone to the tracks?

Hey BJ,

I'd suspect that it would work, and maybe quite well. I just don't have any on-hand (no black powder guns or gun smithing projects on the bench). If no one else gives it a try before I run out of the Blacken-It and liquid gun bluing that I already have, I'll be giving it shot.

I might look around too and see if I can find any of John Charvat's stained glass leading blackener. I'm in Michael's and Hobby Lobby pretty frequently, so that's another option worth exploring.

Mike,
The stuff that I have is Novacan Black Patina for solder and lead. I got mine on line for $4-6 for a 8 oz bottle. I have not used it yet but Cory Sutton aka Mr 1/35 scale Ratchet Strap, raved about it after using it for his Israeli M113's Fruili track.

The instructions recommend using a brush vice soaking in the solution.

See ya in 103 days...

John

Hey Mike,

I just did my Tiger tracks and got marginal results. They got a bit darker and have gone from silver color to a light grey. The pins are nice and black though. I will try again later and see if I get better results. Maybe they didn't soak long enough. It was pretty close to 10 minutes though. My camera battery is charging but I will take a couple of pictures later on.

Al

Hmmm...? Maybe a factor of soaking time and solution strength? Those Tiger tracks are pretty large going by total surface area when compared to the Cromwell tracks. Maybe a longer soaking time or more solution or both is required. Alternatively, maybe soaking more than once.

Let us know the details of how long and how much.

In the end, if you have to use twice as much of the liquid gun blue to get the same results as with the Blacken-It, then obviously the economics side no longer works to the gun bluing's advantage.

On the other hand, there may be advantages in control with a slower reaction or in overall color, etc.

Mike,

One thing that I did not do was clean the tracks before I treated them. I have some areas that are bright silver and that may be from oil left over from the mould release.

Another odd thing is that you said the solution turned green. Mine turned tan. Of course I used a tan colored plasitc container so it may be transfer from that.

I will pick up some more solution today and try again with clean tracks and a glass container. Of course I will post my results.

Thanks for your help.

Al

I wonder if it would work on tow cables?Jeff

It should work really well on tow cables.

Aloha: I just used Liquid Gun Blue on a set of Fruil tracks for a Pz IV.


The Gun Blue was poured into the container and the tracks set in the container after. Using a stick, I moved the tracks around, kind of like stirring them. They soaked for 10 minutes. After pulling them out, I immediately rinsed with cold water, then scrubbed with a toothbrush under running water, then scrubbed some more with the same toothbrush with water and dishsoap in the sink. Read the label. This stuff contains acid which can irriate your skin and eyes. I wore blue Nitril (spelling?) gloves and generally used the stick to get them out of the container.

The result was this:

Overall an even steel/grey color, with some red/orange splotches that didn't want to come out, although they are mostly in between the raised parts of the track.

One thing to note is that the Gun Blue did nothing to the brass wire Fruil supplied for the pins. So, to eliminate the bright spots, I painted the ends grey.

I'm happy with the results and think these will look fine after a bit of Track Wash from AK Interactive.

Happy Modeling, -zon