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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Painting over sand-coloured plastic kits.
Foxtrot1
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Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: March 03, 2011
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Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 - 08:10 PM UTC
Hey guys.

I was hoping that I might be able to get some useful tips here, regarding the painting of sand-coloured plastic kits.

I recently built Academy's M998 Gun Truck. I had to give the parts multiple coatings of Tamiya NATO Green (I literally went through more than four cans of spray paint) as a base colour.

What would be the best colur to use as a 'base coat', so that I won't have to spary the parts so many times?
vonHengest
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 - 08:26 PM UTC
It depends on what tone you want, but black tends to work well for the darker greens unless you want to use preshading. In that case gray is a good choice.
Foxtrot1
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Gauteng, South Africa
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Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 - 08:33 PM UTC
Thanks Jeremy!

The Humvee I want to build is going to be spary painted in NATO camo. That NATO Green is pretty dark, so I think I will give the black undercoat a go.
Karl187
#284
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Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 12:40 AM UTC
Tamiya Grey Surface Primer always works well no matter the color of the plastic, it always gives a nice surface and color to start painting, whether you are using light or dark colors.
Foxtrot1
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Gauteng, South Africa
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 01:06 AM UTC
Thanks Karl. I haven't seen that Tamiya product, but I will have a look when I go buy the things I need at the local hobby shop.
pseudorealityx
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Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 02:09 AM UTC
Something seems off if you used 4 cans to cover 1 kit. Like it wasn't shaken enough, or the coats were too heavy, or something...
Foxtrot1
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Gauteng, South Africa
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 02:24 AM UTC
Nope, true story. The sand colour of the plastic kept shining through. Once I had glued pieces together I gave another coat of NATO green to cover up any tell tale traces of the gluing process. The Academy M998 Gun Truck also has quite a few more pieces than the M1025 of the same make. Although, I won't dispute the fact that it does sound a bit odd to use so many cans. I built Tamiya's M48A3 recently, using only one and a half cans of Tamiya Olive Drab.
sgtsauer
#065
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 02:48 AM UTC
I use Model Master primer which is a shade of gray and get good results with it.
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 02:57 AM UTC
K;

I'm pretty much with Jesse - it does seem odd to me to use that much paint on one kit! I figure on using around 15 ml total of paint mixed with thinner for a smaller vehicle, and maybe as much as 25 ml of mix for something bigger - say a 1/35 Panzer IV wirbelwind with considerable inside stuff as well as outside. Just saying!

Of course, there are lots of things which could strongly affect the amount of paint one uses... I find that I use a LOT more when painting separate parts than when I paint a mostly wholly-assembled kit. Perhaps you are doing more the "separate parts" route?

In any case, I think using a thin dark "primer" coat could help address that plastic-color "show-thru" - I use Floquil RR enamel "engine black" as this provides both a fine and tough painting surface and some pre-shading if desired.

Bob
Foxtrot1
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Gauteng, South Africa
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 02:57 AM UTC
Thanks Brent. I don't recall any of the hobby shops here in Pretoria (RSA) actually stocking any of the Models Master paints. Which is a pity, as I have only ever heard good things about thee brand.
TacFireGuru
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 03:24 AM UTC
Keigan,

Not sure if you can find it in RSA, but I've had exceptional luck with Games WorkShop (WarHammer?) gray primer. On all colors of plastic, resin, and PE. Pretty much don't use anything else.

Mike
pseudorealityx
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 04:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nope, true story. The sand colour of the plastic kept shining through. Once I had glued pieces together I gave another coat of NATO green to cover up any tell tale traces of the gluing process. The Academy M998 Gun Truck also has quite a few more pieces than the M1025 of the same make. Although, I won't dispute the fact that it does sound a bit odd to use so many cans. I built Tamiya's M48A3 recently, using only one and a half cans of Tamiya Olive Drab.



Even using Tamiya spray cans, you should easily be able to do an entire model with a single can. And do a light misting coat, let it dry. Then do another light mist coat, let it dry, repeat as needed. You don't want to try to get full coverage with 1 coat.

I would also suggest building at least major subassemblies if not the entire thing before painting. Obviously the interior of the M998 would need to be painted separately, but then again, the glue joints for putting the interior in shouldn't be terribly visible either.
Foxtrot1
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Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: March 03, 2011
KitMaker: 234 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 04:17 AM UTC
Bob, the problem may very well be that I spray the pieces while they're still on the sprues, then again once they have been put together. The spraying the sprues is what uses a large amount of paint. So if I assemble the model (after it has been primed) and spray it the base colour, I will get that uniformed look?

Easy_Co
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 04:40 AM UTC
Hi,I think you are out of sequence and making hardwork for yourself.If your building a Humvee I would imagine its chassis first engine compartment then Interior once that is built I would do my priming then painting of the interior and engine then then build the main body then prime and paint that and the chassis.Try to look at thekit as sub assemblies and whatwould be awkward to paint when its put together.try not to paint on the sprue you have to handle the parts put on glue it can get very messy then you have to repaint and you loose fine details that way.hope this helps
brentwal
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Washington, United States
Joined: February 06, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 05:02 AM UTC
Actually I think you were experiencing pigment bleed through from the plastic itself.

The Tamiya paint is a lacquer based product and the solvents may have caused the pigments to "float" to the top, thus giving the appearance of poor coverage. Red and yellow pigments are most prone to this.

Also putting on additional coats to quickly makes this worse. As a general rule of thumb, wait two or more days between coats if this happens again.

As many have suggested, use a primer of some sort. You may be able to find a quality automotive "sandable" primer in your area if hobby type primers aren't available.
Karl187
#284
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Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 05:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bob, the problem may very well be that I spray the pieces while they're still on the sprues, then again once they have been put together. The spraying the sprues is what uses a large amount of paint. So if I assemble the model (after it has been primed) and spray it the base colour, I will get that uniformed look?




Best to paint it once it is assembled as John said. For bits like the engine and interior, paint these and then continue before painting the rest of the assembled model. You can mask off the interior and/or engine if you are worried about the exterior colors getting into those areas. As John also mentioned glue, especially poly cement, doesn't like paint and usually it will make gluing the parts a nightmare as the paint coat stops the plastic bonding properly.

In addition, sometimes I have found painting parts without primer, perhaps a small sub-assembly for example, means the paint simply won't adhere properly and ends up coming off or not adhereing properly in similar manner to water on a greased/oily/waterproof surface. This is sometimes caused by mould release agents which can remain on plastic model parts. Try washing the parts in warm soapy water to sort this out. Again, investing in a good primer will also solve this issue.

Hope this helps.
Foxtrot1
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Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: March 03, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 07:09 AM UTC
Thank you all so much for the tips. I've just realised (after reading your comments) what I am doing wrong. Firstly, I dont allow the parts to stand long enough to dry properly. Secondly, I primer seems to make it alot easier to coat the plastic. Thirdly, the building of the entire model should make it easier to paint than painting individual parts first.

Also, never thought of washing the sprues first with hot, soapy water. Thanks for that tip.

I will take all of the above into account. I really do appreciate all the feedback I got here. That's exactly why I love this site.

Can't wait to use all of the above this weekend when I kick off the next build.
vonHengest
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 07:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Actually I think you were experiencing pigment bleed through from the plastic itself.

The Tamiya paint is a lacquer based product and the solvents may have caused the pigments to "float" to the top, thus giving the appearance of poor coverage. Red and yellow pigments are most prone to this.

Also putting on additional coats to quickly makes this worse. As a general rule of thumb, wait two or more days between coats if this happens again.

As many have suggested, use a primer of some sort. You may be able to find a quality automotive "sandable" primer in your area if hobby type primers aren't available.



My thoughts exactly on the bleed through.

All of the primers/base coats suggested will work for you, just pick what you or most comfortable with or what is readily available. You just need to seal the plastic, and the darkness of the primer will determine to a degree how rich/saturated (darker) or bright (lighter) your green or any other color sprayed over it will be. It may only be a subtle effect depending on how you paint your model but larger models provide a larger canvas to reflect/absorb light and the effect will be more noticeable on them.

I typically give the model or parts a light scrubbing or soaking with dishwashing soap/detergent and haven't had a problem with adhesion. However this won't do anything for bleed through, so primer will still be beneficial in your case. Just let it dry before you lay on your color coats.

Post your work if you like, we'd love to see it
Foxtrot1
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Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: March 03, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 06:39 PM UTC
Thanks Jeremy, I appreciate the feedback here.

I will upload some photos as soon as I have completed the model. I bought Academy's M1025 last weekend as test-run model. This will be the first time I use spray-paint to paint NATO camo. Didn't want to mess up the Tamiya M1025 on my first go.
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