Hi All,

I need a bit of help with a kit I'm planning on building.

I have 2 early turret king tigers and 2 vehicles in mind that I would like to model, but am short of a few details:

The first model I'm planning is a Initial Koenigstiger from Pz.Fkl.316, which had turret number 02. I have a fair amount of detail on this, but I can't make heads or tails of the camo. I've seen references to it being just in plain dunkelgelb, and others like in the dragon instructions where it is a 3-tone scheme. Does anyone know for sure which it is?? Also does anyone know of a company that does the early exhaust shields in etch brass for 1/35 scale.

The other vehicle a early turret king tiger from Pz.Abt.503 which is well photographed (it's the one seen about the web with its turret blown off the ring.)
Again the photos I've been looking at of this don't really show if it was in plain dunkelgelb or if it had a camo scheme. The other details I'm not sure of us if this vehicle had lifting hooks around the fans on the rear deck, or if it had overflow pipes for the fuel tanks.

Call for help to any tiger experts!!!!

Hi Sean - Do you have a picture of the vehicle from the 503rd that you're interested in modeling? It sounds like the same one I just completed, which was from 1/s.Pz.Abt. 503 and was knocked out in Plessis-Grimoult, France in August 1944. If so, the scheme was green patches over a dunkelgelb base coat. Take a look at my build log and there's more info (which wiser guys helped me with).

Hi Bill,

This is the tank i'm interested in

http://www.panzernet.net/panzernet/fotky/tanky/pz6b/074.jpg

to be hounest the biggest problem is this: I have as yet never finished a tank kit. My biggest problem is that even though I have a basic compressor and airbrush, I am far too s*** scared to use it on something I have built. As such, I am desperately trying to avoid doing a tank with camouflage until much later on (hence why I am currently planning on doing 2 panthers, a jagdpanther, 2 tigers, and a jagdtiger all in base colours without camo)

Hi Sean

concerning the Initial Tiger ausf B there is still some debate about the colors - weather there was some camo or not. I think we'll never know 100% sure. You can't go wrong with a plain base of Dark Yellow, though I liked the camo with green patches over the basecolor as well (I still have to finish mine btw)

can't help you with exhaust screens: I used the ones provided in the Lion Roar update kit, though I read some folks on the net used some late Tiger I screens

Cheers

Sean - Yes, that's the same tank. I did a fair bit of research to try to get mine accurate, so I'm happy to share it if you want it. Here's my build log with background info:

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/179807#1509847

There's a picture here (albeit small) that shows its camouflage scheme - scroll down to turret 133:

http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?threadid=186&sid=2c8bb49039234ecda9f696beae4893f9

Thanks for chiming in Wouter

What annoys me the most is that I know for a fact that at least 2 of the 316 units did have camo(11 & 12) but the photos of 02 tend to be very dark and offer very little insight as to the layout. And i'm a detail nut and stuff like that drives me up the wall...

FWIW, Sean, I usually go by "the unit average" rule of thumb when confronted by questions like this. That is, I generally assume, in the absence of information to the contrary, that most like-kind vehicles issued and used in a unit at the same time were camouflaged and marked very similarly.

In fact, I often base my builds on "hypothetical" examples of un-photographed vehicles that would have had tactical numbers that wold fall in sequence between known photographed vehicles. I feel that this allows some freedom in cammo patterns and slight, but reasonable, variations in other details, such as markings, damage, weathering, etc.

An example of this is the Panther G that's in the features section here. As far as I know, that vehicle was never photographed, but the tactical number fits what is known about the unit (PzRgt 33), and the other details fit what is known about vehicles manufactured at the time that unit was being issued its Panthers.

Sometimes I get it wrong and later information and research shows my errors, but hey, that's just model-building!

In regards to your KT build, the fuzzy dark photo of the tactical number you want to build should allow you to proceed with confidence that that vehicle was probably painted and marked in the same way as the other tanks of that same unit. However, since the details aren't visible, you should have some freedom to paint within the limits of what is known about the other vehicles that are photographed.

Don't allow yourself to be frozen into in-action while waiting for perfect information. In the end, you just gotta go with the best info you can get and let the chips fall where they may later.

I'd also submit that there's a "skill-technique" corollary to all this, too, and would advise (again FWIW) that you just start squirting some paint with that airbrush. Maybe use a plastic milk carton or other non-porous plastic item and practice painting some. Heck, I've been airbrushing for 40+ years, and I still practice and test patterns and colors on a sheet of plastic before I move to the model I'm working on.

Don't let the fear of messing up keep you from finishing any models. We all make mistakes on our builds, and most of us are very critical of our own work which is what drives most of us to do try to improve. However, you just have to learn to learn from your builds - mistakes and successes. That's the only way that any of us gets better.

I guess I'm kind of sensitive to this "newbie buck-fever" issue because I've seen several starting model builders in local model clubs that have given up on the hobby because they couldn't get "perfect" results right off the bat. So, after starting several models, but not finishing any, they quit the hobby in frustration.

Hang in there and don't worry over much about getting the perfect, complete answer to all of your research questions. That very rarely ever happens. It's greatly satisfying when you do uncover that mysterious last little bit of info, but it's equally satisfying to actually bring a project to completion having learned some new skill or technique knowing that your next model will be even better for the experience.

Thanks for all the encouragement guys I've decided just to get stuck back in so I've just started my panther A and might get round to putting a build log up :o

Out of interest does anyone know what month the KT's started getting lifting hooks around their radiator fans? Also does anyone know what month the KT's changed from getting the long exhausts (like on 11) to the shorter curved ones which later became standard????

My advice on your "inaction" with the painting is this:

1. Put in some time practicing....instead of building the next tank in your stash, use that same amount of time to just practice with your airbrush on scrap plastic, an old model, pre-built toy tank, whatever.

2. Being a good modeler is more than knowing what months lifting hooks were added, or the exact paint scheme for a tank, or just doing everything perfectly. Instead, it's often about being able to fix ones mistakes without ruining the model. Sometimes this means masking a mistake with stowage, weathering, etc. Sometimes it's about light sanding, repainting, etc. ALL model builders make mistakes....it's working through them that sets them apart.

Rob (I'm no master-builder!)

Sean,

I can relate to your fear of using your airbrush on an expensive kit that you have put time into building. You will never learn if you don't start. It does take practice but once you get going you will see it's really not that bad. Once you figure out how to judge the consistancy of the paint and the correct pressure for the effect you are after it will all fall into place.

I pratice on old coffee cans or just plane cardboard. It's really worth the time and it comes pretty quick.