Guys,

Forgive me if I've asked this in the wrong place - very much a novice at this stage. I note there was some comment/requests as to the exact location of the 7.62mm SGM on the BTR 50PK, and that this was actually answered, but the location not shown can anyone identify exactly where this MG goes? I plan to install the SGM from the Zvezda (nee Italeri) Soviet Assault Gp - I have used this before on the old Arsenal BRDM 1 and it looked OK, but now I am keen to arm my Trumpeter BTR 50.

Thanks - in anticipation.

Hi Brain and welcome to Armorama.

The 50PK is a strange one concering the gun mount. I believe the gun is supposed to be mounted here:



However, its rare to actually see a weapon mounted there. The fighting compartment directly behind this location is room enough for about three men and usually one of them would have an RPK deployed there.

This is the best pic I can find, this is an earlier 50 with the open crew compartment:



The Iraqis also didn't mount their MG's there, preferring to mount them on the rear deck:



The Iranian's mounted their MG's in front of the Commander's cupola in the same fashion as the Israeli's did:



I hope this helps.

Many thanks Karl,

This really is a conundrum; I too have dug around on the www and found some pictures of the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia (not posted in case I fall foul of some protocol I'm unaware of - they are overstamped and copyrighted "Magnum Photos") and they seem to show a SGM mounted a little way back yet offset to one side ie to the right if one is looking at the front of the vehicle. The forward opening hatch seems to be the problem. The Israelis clearly, in your photo have gone for a bespoke pintle-mount and I can only assume that the Sovs had similar a little way back otherwise it would foul the hatches. Logic would indicate that there would be a central mount as shown in your Finnish version, and the mount for the 12.7 Dshk would also have been central I'm sure. I don't mind fudging my models a little bit but this is proving quite a riddle.

I'm keen to depict a Soviet version - majoring as I do on Cold War stuff (NATO and Warsaw Pact) - so thanks for your help. I'm also sure I'll come up with even more bone questions in the future!

Brian- is this the mid-hull mount you were referring to:



You can go ahead and post photos, they should be okay.

I also found this mount option on a vehicle from somewhere in Asia (I think):



I'm planning a 50PK build myself at the moment. The picture of the Iraqi one I posted is what I'm going for, with a DsHK mounted on the rear deck.

Don't worry about asking questions Brian, everybody has a few to ask !

Karl, This is indeed very similar to the photos I've come across; it is clearly offset from the centre line, but the difficulty is in establishing just how far back ie inboard it is set from the front hull. On the Trumpeter model there isn't that much room to manouevre. The Zvezda/Italeri SGM is a cracking little representation of the gun and needs, in my opinion, only an empties bag attaching, easily achieved with Milliput or similar, but again, details of any pintle mount would be required. Whilst I can probabaly obscure some of the details with figures - as I like to populate my efforts - I really do need just a touch more info. A good overhead shot taken by the Brixmis boys would be the answer!

I did a little more digging in Russian sources and I think I found what you were looking for regarding this mount:





Hope this helps and when you do start your build keep us updated here, I'd be very interested in seeing what you get up to.

PS: What is Brixmis?

Hi Brian

I can add to Karl's useful info those links

http://army.lv/ru/btr-50/2054/3827

http://army.lv/ru/btr-50/2054/3826


http://svsm.org/gallery/btr-50

I hope they will be usefil

Cheers

Cheers

Karl, you're the man! I hadn't thought about it being pintle/cum pole mounted within the troop compartment; that would explain why it looks off center and yet set back. I also suspect that the front, forward opening hatch isn't used much. So, mystery solved, or at least enough for me to continue my build. I intend to "man" it with around 4 - 5 soldiers in any case so this arrangement should work well.

Brixmis (which comes from a rather complicated acronym for "British Commander's In Chief ("CinCs" = "X") Military Mission)) was an intelligence gathering unit that was based in Berlin and operated thoughout East Germany during the Cold War; the problem was, that they were not allowed to gather intelligence as technically they were just a liaison ie monitoring organisation. They were set up in the aftermath of the Second World War together with their US and French counterparts (US Military Liaison Mission = USMLM and the French Military Liaison Mission = FMLM) with the strict provision of "liaison" not spying! All 3 teams toured operationally in the whole of the DDR and their targets were the Soviet and East German military. Brixmis scored a number of coups, their more notable ones (I'll gloss over the 50s and 60s although some successes then were spectacular) were the identification and capabilities of the T64 when it first appeared in Group of Soviet Froces Germany, including the fact that its armour could defeat nearly all of NATO's main tank armaments and anti tank missiles, and the identification of T80. Touring was a fraught business and could result in detention (causing diplomatic incidents) or even death (US and FR missions in the mid to late 80s). Nearly all those iconic, blurry black and white photos of Sov miliray kit originated from these missions. Arguably, more fascinating than James Bond, and very inspirational to the Cold War modeller - or is that just me?!

Just for the record, the Russians had the same deployed in West Germany, the ones in the British zone being known as "SOXMIS". Sorry for the history lesson. There are a couple of cracking books on these organisations but I'll stop now while I'm ahead.

Thanks again.

Many thanks Mauro; I thought I'd scoured the web but obviously missed these. Very useful indeed.

You're welcome Brian

To find more reference pics try to use as keyword for your internet researches the Russian nomenclature

БТР 50

or

бтр 50пк

Brian- that is interesting about Brixmis- I knew there were liason teams but didn't really know much about them, would you PM me the books you were talking about, they sound like good reads.

Mauro,

Thanks, I should have thought of that; good lateral thinking! An excellent tip when I complete my BTR 50 (only BTR 152, BTR 60PB, BMP 1 and 2 to go!)

Thanks again.

Karl,

They are truly inspirational reads (one could convert the Revell 1:35 Wolf into a Brixmis vehicle and portray a T80 chasing it (!) all described in the books.

They are "BRIXMIS _ the untold exploits of Britain's most daring Cold War Spy Mission" by Tony Geraghty; ISBN unknown as I leant my copy to someone and haven't got it back. This fairly rollicks along and has some good photographs.

"The Last Mission - Behind the Iron Curtain" by Steve Gibson. ISBN 0-7509-1408-4. Author was a serving Brixmis officer. Again, fantastic story and some photos.

"Potsdam Mission - Memoir of a US Army Intelligence Officer in Communist East Germany" by James R Holbrook. ISBN 978-1-4343-5743-4. Obviously, about the US mission; interesting to compare the 2 organisations and methodology, eg Brixmis operated in 3 man teams, but the US with 2.

There is a book (possibly more) about the French mission but I haven't got those; I believe they are available in French only , so would prove a bit of a struggle for me. I think Steve Gibson is about to bring another one out soon.

You may have to tackle Amazon or e-Bay for these as I'm pretty sure they're out of print. Good luck with getting some. Of course, they're not vital to my research and aim of collecting Cold War models, but they do add to the atmosphere if you like,of the Cold War, and thus - well - for me anyway, encourage my model-making. You'll never bypass a model of a T64 again!

BMP-1 site

http://weaponwars.ru/bmp-1/bmp-1.html

BMP-2

http://weaponwars.ru/bmp-2/bmp-2.html

BMP-3

http://weaponwars.ru/bmp-3/bmp-3.html

Czech BvP-1

http://www.brdm2.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/pasova-obrnena-vozidla-a-jejich-varianty/Bojove-vozidlo-pechoty-BVP-1/

http://www.brdm2.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/pasova-obrnena-vozidla-a-jejich-varianty/BVP-1/

Czech BVP-2

http://www.brdm2.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/pasova-obrnena-vozidla-a-jejich-varianty/Bojove-vozidlo-pechoty-BVP-2/

http://www.brdm2.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/ruzne-fotky_zajimavosti_pokyny/jizdy-bvp-v-vvp-pisek/

i adivise also this site which has lot of references about Russian stuff

http://army.lv/ru/oruzhie/Vse-vidi-oruzhiya/Suhoputnie-voyska/Tanki/631


You have to search the references putting the Russian name of your subject in the white space on the left

Regarding walkarounds, this is the best site

http://dishmodels.ru/wlk_main.htm

and also this one is very useful

http://www.fotovalkirumodelism.com/index.php?cat=7

http://www.fotovalkirumodelism.com/index.php?cat=7

cheers

Wow Mauro! What can I say? Thanks again for all your help; this should keep me busy.

Hello!
You may find some useful photos about BTR-50 PU & PK here:
http://mhrfweb.makett.org/MHRF/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=380%3Abtr-50&Itemid=11&lang=en

Many thanks - apologies for the lateness of this reply. I beleive I now have sufficent information to continue my build; if it ends up looking any good I'll post pictures of it.

Thanks again, Brian