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Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
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Battle Of Hue Armor
bracomadar
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Posted: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 08:31 PM UTC
What kind of armor and equipment was used during the Battle Of Hue in the Tet of '68? I know they used the Mule quite a bit (with a recoilless rifle), but what about larger stuff like M113's, or M-48 Pattons? I'm looking for some stuff to use beside some U.S. Marines in a diorama I'm making. My guess would be that they wouldn't bring the heavy armor in to much since the urban setting would provide a lot of cover for someone with an RPG that could take them out. Gimme all the info you can :-)
greatbrit
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Posted: Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 12:13 AM UTC
im planning a hue city diorama using skybows m-41, in arvn markings.
i would love to see those photos. could you post them please
cheers
joe
chip250
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Posted: Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 12:17 AM UTC
Were those M48 Pattons in Full Metal Jacket? The tanks that were used when they went into the city, were those Pattons?

~Chip :-)
Sabot
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Posted: Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 12:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Were those M48 Pattons in Full Metal Jacket? The tanks that were used when they went into the city, were those Pattons?

~Chip :-)

No, they used M41 Walker Bulldogs in the movie. One of the movies I donated to my unit mini gym so we could watch while we ran on treadmills in the winter. Saw bits & pieces of the movie dozens of times this past winter.

The US Army's 1-44th ADA supported the USMC at Hue. They were equipped with the M42A1 Duster.
blaster76
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Posted: Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 10:45 AM UTC
I've see photos of the ONTOS engaged at Hue. Difficult kit to find, but they do turn up on ebay occasionally.
95bravo
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Posted: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 05:05 PM UTC
Those are some great photos! Too bad they're rusting away like that. As a historian I have this need to bring it back to its former glory. It's shame to see artifacts in that sort of shape.

On a related note, does anyone know if there is a V100 kit out there someplace?

Best Wishes
Steve
Vodnik
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Posted: Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 01:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

On a related note, does anyone know if there is a V100 kit out there someplace?



Only Verlinden solid resin brick


There is also very nice resin V150 available from Hobby Fan - this one has a full interior. but it is not V100


Rgds,
Pawel
bracomadar
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Posted: Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 01:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

On a related note, does anyone know if there is a V100 kit out there someplace?



Only Verlinden solid resin brick


There is also very nice resin V150 available from Hobby Fan - this one has a full interior. but it is not V100 :-(




And I bet both would cost you an arm and a leg #:-)
M4Nut
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Posted: Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 03:23 PM UTC
As far as Marine M-48's go most were M-48A3s as in the Tamiya kit. I also recall reading that due to destroyed and damaged tanks the Marines also used the M-48A2 (or was it A1, I guess I'm having a senior moment). That version is available as the old Monogram Patton. I think currently OOP but probably around on E-bay or contest vendors.
Eric
Hollowpoint
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Posted: Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 03:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The US Army's 1-44th ADA supported the USMC at Hue. They were equipped with the M42A1 Duster.



That shook my brain cells --- wasn't Skybow or AFV Club promising a Duster a couple years ago? Forget that old Tamya crap kit (it is total out-of-scale, over-simplified junk). A new-tool Duster would get my stingy model money. Wasn't the Duster supposed to be a close follow-on kit to the M41???
bracomadar
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Posted: Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 04:26 PM UTC
Personally, I'm shocked and horrified, that only 1 company makes an Ontos, and it costs a fortune. I'm surprised AFV Club hasn't done that yet.
95bravo
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Posted: Friday, November 21, 2003 - 04:53 PM UTC
Arm and a leg ..Yes!

64.00 dollars from Squadron.....Anyone build this kit or know of anyone who has? I'm curious to know if it's worth the money.
newfish
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 10:30 AM UTC
hobby boss are bringing out the v100 commando car its due very soon!!!

and m48, m113 were both used during the battle, and the were used heavilly
im reading a book on it right now!!!!
Whiskey6
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 11:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What kind of armor and equipment was used during the Battle Of Hue in the Tet of '68? I know they used the Mule quite a bit (with a recoilless rifle), but what about larger stuff like M113's, or M-48 Pattons? I'm looking for some stuff to use beside some U.S. Marines in a diorama I'm making. My guess would be that they wouldn't bring the heavy armor in to much since the urban setting would provide a lot of cover for someone with an RPG that could take them out. Gimme all the info you can :-)



USMC Armored vehicles:
M-48A3
M-50 Ontos
LVTP-5
LVTH-6

USMC Artillery:
M-101
M-114
Probably some M-53 155mm guns and/or M-107 175mm
Possibly some M-55 and/or M110 8 inch howitzers

USMC Trucks:
M-35
M-54
M-151, including the ambulance version
M-37, including the ambulance version

The mechanical mule was used extensively both with and without the 106mm recoiless rifles. The main use of the mule was to haul supplies and water in and casualties out.

As noted in other posts, the ARVN's had M-41s and M-113s. The trucks used by the ARVN's I worked with were usually M-38's and the old Dodge Power Wagon 1 ton truck from WWII. (tandem axle, single wheel) They used it like we used the M-37. They also had the M-35 trucks.

ARVN artillery included both the M-101 and the M-114.

Both USMC and ARVN units made heavy use of the 81mm and 60mm mortars. Machine guns were the M-60 for the grunts and M-1919 .30 cal machine guns for the tanks, amtracks and Ontos. I think the ARVNs may have also had some M-1919s with their infantry formations at that time.

The Marines used the 3.5 inch rocket launcher (bazooka) with both HE and WP rounds. I'm not sure if the LAWS had made it to the fight at that time. The ARVN Rangers I worked with had 57mm recoilless rifles that were usually fired from the shoulder, although I think they could also be mounted on tripods.

That's about what my old memory can cough up right now. If I remember anything else, I'll add it later.

Semper Fi,
Dave
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 02:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

What kind of armor and equipment was used during the Battle Of Hue in the Tet of '68? I know they used the Mule quite a bit (with a recoilless rifle), but what about larger stuff like M113's, or M-48 Pattons? I'm looking for some stuff to use beside some U.S. Marines in a diorama I'm making. My guess would be that they wouldn't bring the heavy armor in to much since the urban setting would provide a lot of cover for someone with an RPG that could take them out. Gimme all the info you can :-)



not much if any at all from the southside of town. The city was pretty much shot to pieces by 155 howitzers from the southside of the Perfume River. The NVA then hooled up in The Citadel, were they were then shot to pieces. Contrary to what the guys on the History Channel say there was probably five different outfits there, and what we hear about on TV was not really Hue, but the village on the southside of the Perfume River. If you want to do armor in RVN during the 1968 TET Offensive you should be thinking Cholon or downtown Siagon (I'd suggest you read Dwight Birdwell's "Hundred Miles Of Bad Road").
There was a lot of armor operating with the Marines and the 5th Mechanized Infantry up near the DMZ. (say within sixty miles).
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 02:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Were those M48 Pattons in Full Metal Jacket? The tanks that were used when they went into the city, were those Pattons?

~Chip :-)

No, they used M41 Walker Bulldogs in the movie. One of the movies I donated to my unit mini gym so we could watch while we ran on treadmills in the winter. Saw bits & pieces of the movie dozens of times this past winter.

The US Army's 1-44th ADA supported the USMC at Hue. They were equipped with the M42A1 Duster.



that unit was the one that covered the Highway One sector to Hue. Never could catch what the unit number was till now. Seems like the 6th of the 11th infantry was there as well as another out of the 196th. It also seems to me like there was at least one full strength battalion of the 101st on the northside of the river. And maybe three or four arty units firing from criss-crossing angles.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 02:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

What kind of armor and equipment was used during the Battle Of Hue in the Tet of '68? I know they used the Mule quite a bit (with a recoilless rifle), but what about larger stuff like M113's, or M-48 Pattons? I'm looking for some stuff to use beside some U.S. Marines in a diorama I'm making. My guess would be that they wouldn't bring the heavy armor in to much since the urban setting would provide a lot of cover for someone with an RPG that could take them out. Gimme all the info you can :-)



USMC Armored vehicles:
M-48A3
M-50 Ontos
LVTP-5
LVTH-6

USMC Artillery:
M-101
M-114
Probably some M-53 155mm guns and/or M-107 175mm
Possibly some M-55 and/or M110 8 inch howitzers

USMC Trucks:
M-35
M-54
M-151, including the ambulance version
M-37, including the ambulance version

The mechanical mule was used extensively both with and without the 106mm recoiless rifles. The main use of the mule was to haul supplies and water in and casualties out.

As noted in other posts, the ARVN's had M-41s and M-113s. The trucks used by the ARVN's I worked with were usually M-38's and the old Dodge Power Wagon 1 ton truck from WWII. (tandem axle, single wheel) They used it like we used the M-37. They also had the M-35 trucks.

ARVN artillery included both the M-101 and the M-114.

Both USMC and ARVN units made heavy use of the 81mm and 60mm mortars. Machine guns were the M-60 for the grunts and M-1919 .30 cal machine guns for the tanks, amtracks and Ontos. I think the ARVNs may have also had some M-1919s with their infantry formations at that time.

The Marines used the 3.5 inch rocket launcher (bazooka) with both HE and WP rounds. I'm not sure if the LAWS had made it to the fight at that time. The ARVN Rangers I worked with had 57mm recoilless rifles that were usually fired from the shoulder, although I think they could also be mounted on tripods.

That's about what my old memory can cough up right now. If I remember anything else, I'll add it later.

Semper Fi,
Dave



onething most everybody forgets about Vietnam is the terrain. The M 48's were just not all that well suited for the area close to Hue because of the rice paddies and very soft and muddy soil. But even an Ontos often had problems too. You gotta remember that Tet started during the end of the monsson season. Highway One was pretty much closed to anything but prime movers and a few heavyduty trucks. The retaking of Highway One was an even bigger priority all the way south to Chu Lai (probably even further south to who knows where). This is where you'd see tanks and tons of APC's (still not a lot of ACAVs at this time). Everything west of Highway One was pretty much light infantry backed up with constant air strikes and arty. And while all this was going on the Marines were constantly bulking up the area near Khe Sanh (the real hot spot up that way). Phu Bai had been overran (leastwise the airbase), and they had every Tom, Dick and Harry headed up there. Hue was really just a spot on the map when you look at the other vacation spots in trouble up there. Contein (guess that's how you spell it) had been over ran and retaken a couple times. Dong Ha was in serious trouble as well as Marble Mountain.
Just a note about the M114's: Never saw anybody use one in RVN. They used the next model older (similar to the Testors kit [barrel is made different on the M114]). Most 105's at the time were M101's. 175 Guns were in favor up north, and 8" sp's were used about everywhere. I did see some Marines using a very old 155 sp (not an M12 or a M40) North of Chu Lai just before Tet. Was kinda surprised about the Mule. Everyone I ever saw was blown to a zillion pieces. Must have had better luck with them than the guys south of there (I'd rather walk thank you )
You also gotta remember that CAV units were few and far between prior to TET, and even then most were way south.
glad you made it home, "so welcome home"
gary
I noticed that you didn't make note of the M67 flame thrower tank. Did you forget?
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 08:20 PM UTC
Initially, the only heavy armor available in the city itself was a pair of Marine M67A2 flame thrower tanks (M48A3 with a flame gun instead of a 90 mm). They were knocked out and recovered (and re-crewed) several times during the battle. Later, additional armor assets became available as the NVA were driven out of the city.
taylgr
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 10:36 PM UTC
Brad,

most of the other guys are pretty spot on - m48's for direct support but Ontos and dusters there in abundance, also saw a couple of m48 zippos as well



most of Hue looked like this at the height of hostilities, back from the Perfume river - lot more debris along the river edges, and around the Citadel

Greg
trickymissfit
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Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 - 04:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Initially, the only heavy armor available in the city itself was a pair of Marine M67A2 flame thrower tanks (M48A3 with a flame gun instead of a 90 mm). They were knocked out and recovered (and re-crewed) several times during the battle. Later, additional armor assets became available as the NVA were driven out of the city.



I never figured out why the Army never used them in country. Much more effective than an M113 "zippo", and ten times safer. But of course the 48 was kinda limited in where it could go due to ground pressure issues. Nothing fun at all about pulling out a bogged down M48 out in the middle of no place. That photo is in the village to the south of the Perfume River, and reflects the house to house issues there.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 - 04:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Personally, I'm shocked and horrified, that only 1 company makes an Ontos, and it costs a fortune. I'm surprised AFV Club hasn't done that yet.



I thought I read somewhere that Dragon or Trumpter has a new one in the works. I have one parked nearby, and if anybody building one needs pics let me know.
gary
TAFFY3
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Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 - 05:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Those are some great photos! Too bad they're rusting away like that. As a historian I have this need to bring it back to its former glory. It's shame to see artifacts in that sort of shape.

On a related note, does anyone know if there is a V100 kit out there someplace?

Best Wishes
Steve

Steve, Hobby Boss is scheduled to release a kit of the V-100. Don't know when. You can see pictures on their website of the box art and several other versions they are going to make. Al
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