always kinda liked the Blitz truck for some oddball reason, and have three in progress right now. But I was at my LHS over the weekend, and saw that there is a 1/24th scale Blitz out now! But that's not my question.
I'm doing a couple of trucks with the conversion sets to make a radio truck and a maintanence truck. But after finding another unbuilt kit in my seemingly ever growing stash, I thoght I might try an AA gun mounted on the back of the truck. So what I want to know is just what AA guns were mounted on them (aka Flak 38 and maybe even a Flak 43?). Any thoughts would be appreciated
gary
Hosted by Darren Baker
Opel Blitz trucks
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 05:31 AM UTC
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 07:23 AM UTC
Gary;
Hi! OK - the Opel Blitz (by which I suspect you mean that 1939+ 3-ton standard truck kitted by Dragon / CH and Italeri and Tamiya w/ and w/o Flak 38...) was, well, a 3-ton rated truck.
The Flak 38 is probably the "typical flak gun" we associate with this vehicle. And this little gun, while looking like it comfortably fits into and modestly fills the Blitz bed, surely posed a pretty under-weight load - I think the gun all-up on its mount w/ shields may have weighed around 8 - 900 lbs? Throw a few hundred lbs of ammo in, and a crew, and you are still only around 2000 lbs - a ton, I'd bet! Even adding on that "flak sledge" that some folks do and as kitted by CH added, I think, maybe 7 - 800 lbs; Still manageable for the old Blitz.
The 3.7cm Flak guns were quite larger and heavier: Flak 36/37 weighed about 3400 lbs on its mount, and even the lighter (and much rarer) Flak 43 still weighed about 2800 lbs "dry". As the ammo was also much heavier, a few hundred rounds of the heavier ammo (ca 2 - 3 lbs per cartridge) and a crew could easily top the truck's weight limit. And also, along with being heavier and larger, the 3.7cm guns kicked a lot more... a heavily - loaded truck is pretty tippy...
I'm not saying that it never happened, and certes not that it COULD NOT happen, but I've never seen a pic of such...
Another teaser idea is to have a 2cm Flakvierling back there... I think someone may have kitted this idea once (for the Blitz)- but don't know for sure. Did this happen? Well... the Flakvierling weighed in around 33 - 3400 lbs dry. While "popular" on the heavier halftracks, it DID apparently get into some larger trucks - and if one left the shields behind, there could be some saved weight. A short search reveals a couple of pics of the Fv 38 sans shields in an Italian truck, and someone has kitted in a small scale something like a 4.5 ton German truck with one (but I have no idea whether this is manufacturer imagination or a real thing, so..)
It would be quite like mounting the Flak 36/37 in a Blitz... I don't think anyone really did it, unless for a moment in dire straights... but that's only my guess and someone out there could show us different!
So, IMHO, it's a light 2cm - type gun that you want - the 3.7cm would be over the top (or at least soon on its side
)!
Just a suggestion!
Bob
Hi! OK - the Opel Blitz (by which I suspect you mean that 1939+ 3-ton standard truck kitted by Dragon / CH and Italeri and Tamiya w/ and w/o Flak 38...) was, well, a 3-ton rated truck.
The Flak 38 is probably the "typical flak gun" we associate with this vehicle. And this little gun, while looking like it comfortably fits into and modestly fills the Blitz bed, surely posed a pretty under-weight load - I think the gun all-up on its mount w/ shields may have weighed around 8 - 900 lbs? Throw a few hundred lbs of ammo in, and a crew, and you are still only around 2000 lbs - a ton, I'd bet! Even adding on that "flak sledge" that some folks do and as kitted by CH added, I think, maybe 7 - 800 lbs; Still manageable for the old Blitz.
The 3.7cm Flak guns were quite larger and heavier: Flak 36/37 weighed about 3400 lbs on its mount, and even the lighter (and much rarer) Flak 43 still weighed about 2800 lbs "dry". As the ammo was also much heavier, a few hundred rounds of the heavier ammo (ca 2 - 3 lbs per cartridge) and a crew could easily top the truck's weight limit. And also, along with being heavier and larger, the 3.7cm guns kicked a lot more... a heavily - loaded truck is pretty tippy...
I'm not saying that it never happened, and certes not that it COULD NOT happen, but I've never seen a pic of such...
Another teaser idea is to have a 2cm Flakvierling back there... I think someone may have kitted this idea once (for the Blitz)- but don't know for sure. Did this happen? Well... the Flakvierling weighed in around 33 - 3400 lbs dry. While "popular" on the heavier halftracks, it DID apparently get into some larger trucks - and if one left the shields behind, there could be some saved weight. A short search reveals a couple of pics of the Fv 38 sans shields in an Italian truck, and someone has kitted in a small scale something like a 4.5 ton German truck with one (but I have no idea whether this is manufacturer imagination or a real thing, so..)
It would be quite like mounting the Flak 36/37 in a Blitz... I don't think anyone really did it, unless for a moment in dire straights... but that's only my guess and someone out there could show us different!
So, IMHO, it's a light 2cm - type gun that you want - the 3.7cm would be over the top (or at least soon on its side
)!Just a suggestion!
Bob
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 08:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gary;
Hi! OK - the Opel Blitz (by which I suspect you mean that 1939+ 3-ton standard truck kitted by Dragon / CH and Italeri and Tamiya w/ and w/o Flak 38...) was, well, a 3-ton rated truck.
The Flak 38 is probably the "typical flak gun" we associate with this vehicle. And this little gun, while looking like it comfortably fits into and modestly fills the Blitz bed, surely posed a pretty under-weight load - I think the gun all-up on its mount w/ shields may have weighed around 8 - 900 lbs? Throw a few hundred lbs of ammo in, and a crew, and you are still only around 2000 lbs - a ton, I'd bet! Even adding on that "flak sledge" that some folks do and as kitted by CH added, I think, maybe 7 - 800 lbs; Still manageable for the old Blitz.
The 3.7cm Flak guns were quite larger and heavier: Flak 36/37 weighed about 3400 lbs on its mount, and even the lighter (and much rarer) Flak 43 still weighed about 2800 lbs "dry". As the ammo was also much heavier, a few hundred rounds of the heavier ammo (ca 2 - 3 lbs per cartridge) and a crew could easily top the truck's weight limit. And also, along with being heavier and larger, the 3.7cm guns kicked a lot more... a heavily - loaded truck is pretty tippy...
I'm not saying that it never happened, and certes not that it COULD NOT happen, but I've never seen a pic of such...
Another teaser idea is to have a 2cm Flakvierling back there... I think someone may have kitted this idea once (for the Blitz)- but don't know for sure. Did this happen? Well... the Flakvierling weighed in around 33 - 3400 lbs dry. While "popular" on the heavier halftracks, it DID apparently get into some larger trucks - and if one left the shields behind, there could be some saved weight. A short search reveals a couple of pics of the Fv 38 sans shields in an Italian truck, and someone has kitted in a small scale something like a 4.5 ton German truck with one (but I have no idea whether this is manufacturer imagination or a real thing, so..)
It would be quite like mounting the Flak 36/37 in a Blitz... I don't think anyone really did it, unless for a moment in dire straights... but that's only my guess and someone out there could show us different!
So, IMHO, it's a light 2cm - type gun that you want - the 3.7cm would be over the top (or at least soon on its side
Just a suggestion!
Bob
I've seen the kits with the single barrel 20mm cannon before, and might have seen a photo of the real thing. But I was kinda thinking about a quad 20mm Flak. Maybe one of the better kits like the AFV or a Dragon. Then you could set it up with a trailer. I'd kinda guess it to be a "what if", but my guess is that they built at least a couple. A shame about the 37mm as I have three or four left over guns laying about.
of course looking at this way; the truck is rated at 6000 pounds. But is that 6000 GVW or actual cargo it can haul? I'd guess it as GVW. Now the U.S. has mounted quad fifties on the back of 2 1/2 ton trucks, but most of the time it was on a 5 ton. Gotta remember that tires back then couldn't handle weight like the ones twenty years later could do. So thinking this all over again, I think I'm going with the single barrel 20mm Flat. Just means I gotta buy one, but they do make some really nice PE for them.
gary
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 08:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think someone may have kitted this idea once (for the Blitz)- but don't know for sure.
ESCI did
Quoted Text
someone has kitted in a small scale something like a 4.5 ton German truck with one (but I have no idea whether this is manufacturer imagination or a real thing, so..)
Here's a 1:1 Mercedes 4500 fitted with a Flakvierling :
The 3.7cm Flak36/37 were sometimes fitted to the Maultier variant of the Blitz :
HTH
Frenchy
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 08:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI think someone may have kitted this idea once (for the Blitz)- but don't know for sure.
ESCI didQuoted Textsomeone has kitted in a small scale something like a 4.5 ton German truck with one (but I have no idea whether this is manufacturer imagination or a real thing, so..)
Here's a 1:1 Mercedes 4500 fitted with a Flakvierling :
The 3.7cm Flak36/37 were sometimes fitted to the Maultier variant of the Blitz :
HTH
Frenchy
does anybody make a 1/35 scale kit of that half track? Think Greatwall or somebody else does the Mercedes truck
gary
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 08:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
does anybody make a 1/35 scale kit of that half track?
I guess this one is currently OOP...but you can still find it on eBay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Italeri-1-35-Opel-Maultier-German-HalfTrack-SdKfz3-221-/110680710802
And anyway Italeri has re-released it with the Flak 38 :
HTH
Frenchy
Removed by original poster on 03/15/12 - 20:53:17 (GMT).
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 03:54 PM UTC
Yeah - I knew someone - Frenchy would be a likely 
- would remind me about that Esci Blitz w/ flakvierling kit. That's the very one I was thinking of! And I've not ever seen a pic of any such thing in real use. Again, I've hardly seen every pic out there, but IF this was built, well... I'd lay money on it having been a rare bird indeed!
There were certainly some heavier trucks used, as seen in the pic. The Mercedes (and heavier Henschel and Tatra and other marks) would be viable for a bigger gun. The Opel Maultier would also be a more-viable carrier for a bigger gun (such as the 3.7cm in the pic), as it had better X-country performance then did the truck. More subtle perhaps, but Opel Blitz came in 4x2 and 4x4 versions. I would suppose that the Germans would more likely have used the 4x4 for a gun-carrier... less risk of it getting bogged and losing a valuable gun by fate.
For my money, a Flak 38 in the Blitz rocks! And it wouldn't be out of the question to use one of those 3cm Flak 103/38 "jaboschreck" guns, I think. Hmmmmm. I have a Blitz and a jaboschreck...
Bob
- would remind me about that Esci Blitz w/ flakvierling kit. That's the very one I was thinking of! And I've not ever seen a pic of any such thing in real use. Again, I've hardly seen every pic out there, but IF this was built, well... I'd lay money on it having been a rare bird indeed!There were certainly some heavier trucks used, as seen in the pic. The Mercedes (and heavier Henschel and Tatra and other marks) would be viable for a bigger gun. The Opel Maultier would also be a more-viable carrier for a bigger gun (such as the 3.7cm in the pic), as it had better X-country performance then did the truck. More subtle perhaps, but Opel Blitz came in 4x2 and 4x4 versions. I would suppose that the Germans would more likely have used the 4x4 for a gun-carrier... less risk of it getting bogged and losing a valuable gun by fate.
For my money, a Flak 38 in the Blitz rocks! And it wouldn't be out of the question to use one of those 3cm Flak 103/38 "jaboschreck" guns, I think. Hmmmmm. I have a Blitz and a jaboschreck...
Bob
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 06:11 PM UTC
What about an armored Blitz ?
Frenchy
Frenchy
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Friday, March 16, 2012 - 01:37 AM UTC
Hey! Now that's the BOMB, Frenchy! THANKS for posting this!
An armored Blitz 2cm Flak 38 truck!
"Woo-hoo, oh wooo-hooo, Mr. CyberHobby! Here's a COOL one-off for you!" And I'd be all over this one!
OK. Not to shed too much cold wah wah on this, but... It looks to be the 4x4 version - which, best of my knowledge, is not kitted in 1/35 (and more the shame and pain, that-), so building this will be more work
! (My consternation w/ CH's recent flak-blitz kit includes this issue - using the 4x4 was actually the most common flak-Blitz configuration, anyway!) And with added armor being greater weight, it would seem even more likely only a 4x4 would be used for this mod...)
From what I can see in the nice lower pic, the cab, including lowers and bed frame, is all well-built... the features "ring" of the typical semi-armored flak-track - cab walls of thin plate, mesh-side / drop-side bed (probably with a sledge flak-mount...), fitted layered front armor- It looks almost as if the bed -sides and front armor were lifted off of an available SdKfz 10/5 and bolted to a waiting Blitz All-Rad! Sensible! That, and the rail shipping stencil, suggest that this beastie may have been a substantial rear-area shop project or maybe even a test-bed vehicle from an assembly plant - and then sent somewhere via the rails.
An interesting side - note: The upper pic of that camo'd armored Blitz is towing the empty standard Sd.Ah 52 trailer that the Flak 38 rode on... From this, I would guess that this is a "field test" or demo pic. The crew have the new (and newly-painted) test truck out in the training field and have now man-handled that gun off its trailer and up into the truck bed and readied for the photo-op. "OK, Guys, look sharp, now!" This strongly suggests to me that the Flak 38 is NOT actually mounted in that truck - unlike its "permanent" mount in the SdKfz 10/5-, but may simply be set in the bed. Which might make this more an armored cargo truck version which is again being seconded to possible flak-truck use, as versus a fully-modified flak vehicle.
Aside from working up the 4x4 changes to the general beastie, I could see taking the bed bits and radiator armor from the aforementioned 10/5 and scratching a plated cab... really cool!
Bob
PS: I think that the CH flak-Blitz is actually a way-cool kit - aside from being the 4x2 truck. It will build up into a super cool, IMO, depiction of an "improved" (seeing as it has that flak-sldge added in) earlier-war field-shop mod.
An armored Blitz 2cm Flak 38 truck!
"Woo-hoo, oh wooo-hooo, Mr. CyberHobby! Here's a COOL one-off for you!" And I'd be all over this one!
OK. Not to shed too much cold wah wah on this, but... It looks to be the 4x4 version - which, best of my knowledge, is not kitted in 1/35 (and more the shame and pain, that-), so building this will be more work
! (My consternation w/ CH's recent flak-blitz kit includes this issue - using the 4x4 was actually the most common flak-Blitz configuration, anyway!) And with added armor being greater weight, it would seem even more likely only a 4x4 would be used for this mod...)From what I can see in the nice lower pic, the cab, including lowers and bed frame, is all well-built... the features "ring" of the typical semi-armored flak-track - cab walls of thin plate, mesh-side / drop-side bed (probably with a sledge flak-mount...), fitted layered front armor- It looks almost as if the bed -sides and front armor were lifted off of an available SdKfz 10/5 and bolted to a waiting Blitz All-Rad! Sensible! That, and the rail shipping stencil, suggest that this beastie may have been a substantial rear-area shop project or maybe even a test-bed vehicle from an assembly plant - and then sent somewhere via the rails.
An interesting side - note: The upper pic of that camo'd armored Blitz is towing the empty standard Sd.Ah 52 trailer that the Flak 38 rode on... From this, I would guess that this is a "field test" or demo pic. The crew have the new (and newly-painted) test truck out in the training field and have now man-handled that gun off its trailer and up into the truck bed and readied for the photo-op. "OK, Guys, look sharp, now!" This strongly suggests to me that the Flak 38 is NOT actually mounted in that truck - unlike its "permanent" mount in the SdKfz 10/5-, but may simply be set in the bed. Which might make this more an armored cargo truck version which is again being seconded to possible flak-truck use, as versus a fully-modified flak vehicle.
Aside from working up the 4x4 changes to the general beastie, I could see taking the bed bits and radiator armor from the aforementioned 10/5 and scratching a plated cab... really cool!
Bob
PS: I think that the CH flak-Blitz is actually a way-cool kit - aside from being the 4x2 truck. It will build up into a super cool, IMO, depiction of an "improved" (seeing as it has that flak-sldge added in) earlier-war field-shop mod.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Friday, March 16, 2012 - 01:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
OK. Not to shed too much cold wah wah on this, but... It looks to be the 4x4 version - which, best of my knowledge, is not kitted in 1/35 (and more the shame and pain, that-), so building this will be more work
All hope is not lost Bob
Frenchy
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Friday, March 16, 2012 - 01:59 AM UTC
Frenchy:
I've seen this kit adverted somewhere - and maybe on the EvilBay. When I said about not being kitted in 1/35, I was really thinking styrene-kitted (one of those sorta-holy grails - a 1/35 styrene Blitz 4x4 kit), but... Still, you are right - there IS a 4x4 option out there! So, does this PlusModel resin kit come with all that is pictured? If so, one apparently would use, what? only the bed assembly, from one's Italeri Blitz? I suppose that one could as well use the bed from one of those CH kits - though that bed would cost more!
Bob
I've seen this kit adverted somewhere - and maybe on the EvilBay. When I said about not being kitted in 1/35, I was really thinking styrene-kitted (one of those sorta-holy grails - a 1/35 styrene Blitz 4x4 kit), but... Still, you are right - there IS a 4x4 option out there! So, does this PlusModel resin kit come with all that is pictured? If so, one apparently would use, what? only the bed assembly, from one's Italeri Blitz? I suppose that one could as well use the bed from one of those CH kits - though that bed would cost more!
Bob
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So, does this PlusModel resin kit come with all that is pictured?
Do you mean that some manufacturers would dare to post advertising images showing more stuff than actually included in the box ?
Here you'll find more pics of the Plus Model conversion set (and the instruction sheet as well ! ):
http://www.plusmodel.cz/press/?show=156
As far as I can tell, the cab and the chassis frame are not included...
HTH
Frenchy
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.