In the last days of the war in Europe, we all know what happened in Berlin and the colossal ignorance of the Nazi's in charge. But south of Berlin the 9th army had fallen back from the Seelow Heights and was trapped in the Halbe Pocket. In the Western front (a days march away) Wenck's troops were facing the Americans. Hitler ordered Wenck to relieve Berlin, but in the process, Wenck sent his forces not to Berlin, but to save the weakened, beaten 9th army and refugees from the Soviets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPs6rXv3tno
What I want to build is a diorama of the action in that area. I just need to know what the units involved consisted of. i.e. what sort of units were involved, armor, AFV's, and the uniforms of the troops involved on either side. Any help would be amazinggggg.
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panzerconor
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Posted: Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 10:03 AM UTC
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 11:18 AM UTC
Here is a start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Halbe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Halbe
jrutman
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 02:05 AM UTC
If you have to compress the whole battle into one scene you will be hard pressed to show it. Maybe you could show the most dramatic part of the action,in my opinion. The Russians set up a scenario were the Germans were forced to use a narrow escape corridor that passed though the town of Halbe down the main street,in fact.
The Soviets knew pretty much when and where the break-out would go down and set up an impressive ambush with Infantry and plenty of T-34s and Ratsch-bums. There was a log barrier across the main street that the lead elements of the armored group reached in the dark. The lead tank was a TigerII,followed by a few more Tigers. It was hit and burned out,lighting up the area for all hell to break loose. The German forces were intermingled with a whole bunch of civilians and German soldiers that had thrown away their weapons and this mob panicked. The result was a slaughter that was epic. Follow on German units rwached the scene later and said that all during 5 years of bloody combat they had never seen such a large amount of bodies in such a small area.
Units that escaped used a detour around Halbe that led through small sandy woods roads through the pine trees,harrased by the russians all the way.
HTH,J
The Soviets knew pretty much when and where the break-out would go down and set up an impressive ambush with Infantry and plenty of T-34s and Ratsch-bums. There was a log barrier across the main street that the lead elements of the armored group reached in the dark. The lead tank was a TigerII,followed by a few more Tigers. It was hit and burned out,lighting up the area for all hell to break loose. The German forces were intermingled with a whole bunch of civilians and German soldiers that had thrown away their weapons and this mob panicked. The result was a slaughter that was epic. Follow on German units rwached the scene later and said that all during 5 years of bloody combat they had never seen such a large amount of bodies in such a small area.
Units that escaped used a detour around Halbe that led through small sandy woods roads through the pine trees,harrased by the russians all the way.
HTH,J
panzerconor
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Posted: Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 12:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If you have to compress the whole battle into one scene you will be hard pressed to show it. Maybe you could show the most dramatic part of the action,in my opinion. The Russians set up a scenario were the Germans were forced to use a narrow escape corridor that passed though the town of Halbe down the main street,in fact.
The Soviets knew pretty much when and where the break-out would go down and set up an impressive ambush with Infantry and plenty of T-34s and Ratsch-bums. There was a log barrier across the main street that the lead elements of the armored group reached in the dark. The lead tank was a TigerII,followed by a few more Tigers. It was hit and burned out,lighting up the area for all hell to break loose. The German forces were intermingled with a whole bunch of civilians and German soldiers that had thrown away their weapons and this mob panicked. The result was a slaughter that was epic. Follow on German units rwached the scene later and said that all during 5 years of bloody combat they had never seen such a large amount of bodies in such a small area.
Units that escaped used a detour around Halbe that led through small sandy woods roads through the pine trees,harrased by the russians all the way.
HTH,J
So now it looks like it's just a question of what to build. Do you know if any of the other Tiger's made it through the main street? Or of any other vehicles in that mess?
Thanks a million to you both.
-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Monday, March 26, 2012 - 02:03 AM UTC
I seem to recall that there were 3 tigers in the point element and that 2 of them managed to turn around and take another route. In the process they had to run over a lot of dead and wounded civilians and soldiers.
There were also SPW in medium and light version and of course,trucks and cars,to whatever extent gas was available for them.
This was a aweful episode in a aweful war.
J
There were also SPW in medium and light version and of course,trucks and cars,to whatever extent gas was available for them.
This was a aweful episode in a aweful war.
J
panzerconor
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Posted: Monday, March 26, 2012 - 07:30 AM UTC
Halbe doesn't look quite as difficult to reproduce as I first thought. Any idea if there was a good number of Russian infantry in the mess as well? There's never a great deal of information about the Russians... Looks like I should start thinking about drawing out a general idea of what I'm going to do.
Thanks again
-Conor
Thanks again
-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 01:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Halbe doesn't look quite as difficult to reproduce as I first thought. Any idea if there was a good number of Russian infantry in the mess as well? There's never a great deal of information about the Russians... Looks like I should start thinking about drawing out a general idea of what I'm going to do.
Thanks again
-Conor
The Red Army had their positions mainly in the buildings and other vantage points that would cover the kill zone in the street. The obstacle was the log barricade and it was well covered. Basic military tactical doctrine states that an obstacle is only effective when it's defended.
The ambush,as described,was a little late in starting and I am assuming that it was because the Russians,as well as the Germans,were dead tired because of the pace of operations during the previous week. They were probably all asleep! They woke up in time to do serious damage though.
J
panzerconor
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Posted: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 07:08 AM UTC
All that's left to do now is find some post war photos or videos from Halbe, I don't know if it was trashed before hand. It was obviously a wreck afterwards though.
Thanks!
-Conor
Thanks!
-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 07:44 AM UTC
There is an excellent book titled"Slaughter at Halbe" available on Amazon. It is in paperback and inexpensive. It has a few good pics of the scene and is a good read.
J
J
MLD
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Posted: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 10:22 AM UTC
It's a good book, the pictures in my copy aren't dio-reference quality, but good inspiration.
Quite a moving narrative.
Worth the price
Mike
Quite a moving narrative.
Worth the price
Mike