Hello Gents,

I'm looking for a picture of a British or Canadian Sherman firefly with appliqué armor added in Normandy.

I've been googling, looked at all the books I have, but I can't seem to find one... All the fireflies I came across didnt had the appliqué added in Normandy....

Anybody who can help me out here?

Thanks!

Which version? The Sherman 1 hybrids had hull applique put on at the factory, as did many later tanks. There is a picture of a Sherman 1 Firefly in Normandy that has hull applique. I did find several Sherman V Firefly's that had no hull applique. I will do more searching after getting some sleep.

The only fireflies that would have hull applique armour would be those made from existing hulls. The 17pdr ammo stowage was different from the 75mm and the extra armour on the hull sides wasn't needed.
There have been plenty of threads on this subject before and photos posted, but I don't have the time to search and link to them at the moment. If you search the site you should find them easily..........

Sorry, I seem to have forgot to add I was looking for the VC.

The IC is easy to find with appliqué armour, but not the VC.

I Know the why and how, but just can't find a picture of a VC with appliqué armour, well, at least not a British or Canadian one in Normandy. I did find a polish and a new Zealand one, but in different theatres.

I've build the Tasca firefly VC with appliqué, but I'm looking for a picture to model the firefly after.

Thanks!

Dave

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Sherman_Fireflies.pdf might be of help

Thanks David, but I'm. Looking for an authentic picture...

I don't trust nowadays Sherman's. :-)

The top pic on this page shows a Vc of the Fort Garry Horse with applique armour
http://www.ipmscanada.com/Reference_Photo/Army_WWII/Army_WWII_Page/Firefly%20Gallery.html

Halfway down the page - a Vc with applique and tracklink armour
http://www.tanksinworldwar2.com/uk-sherman.php

Thanks Dave, alas the picture isn't from Normandy, but from Holland...

But it's a start. :-) would the Fort Garry Horse had vc's with appliqué in Normandy?

Anyone knows where to get decals for the FGH?

Thanks!

On a Polish website

http://www.2wojna.pl/encyklopedia-us-wb-006.html

After searching through every book I have I can't find one either. However many Firefly's are so covered with netting, tracks etc. there probably is one. This sparked my interest since I am going to be doing one myself shortly. Which kit are you building? I have the Tasca one that I picked up 4 or 5 years ago.

I have a soft spot for the Canadians since about 10 years ago I got to meet a large group at an air show. I can't remember the exact armored unit, but they all fought in Normandy, and to a man hated Monty. We talked as long as the wives would let us!

I don't have any info on when the FGH received fireflies, but when they landed on Juno they had Sherman DDs.

I'm still looking for markings for you. As for decals I usually make them up from Accurate Armour or Ultracast sheets.

Yep, that's my problem to. I looked in all the books I have, googled away, but can't find one vc with appliqué in Normandy...

I'm also building the Tasca kit, I actually already build it some time ago, but want to reconvert it to a British or Canadian vc with appliqué in Normandy... Alas, if I can't find any, I'll have to go with option 4, the New Zealand one in Italy...

None of my usual sources have any specific vehicle numbers, and it's hard to work out which regiments had Sherman and Firefly I (Ic) annd V(Vc).

Markings for any unit in 4th Canadian Armoured Division can be made from here http://www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?manufacturer=0&category=6&subcategory=47&product=379
with unit details here:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~gdavidson1/4Div.html

The FGH seem to have acted as part of an independent brigade and I can't find the correct markings for them. useful info here:
http://www.johnowensmith.co.uk/cdnoob.htm

Yep, that's my problem to. I looked in all the books I have, googled away, but can't find one vc with appliqué in Normandy...

I'm also building the Tasca kit, I actually already build it some time ago, but want to reconvert it to a British or Canadian vc with appliqué in Normandy... Alas, if I can't find any, I'll have to go with option 4, the New Zealand one in Italy...[/quote]

There's still the Poles. Pictures of them landing in Normandy include some Fireflys with apllique. Good luck with your project.

Hi,
The Canadian Sherman at the top of the photo in your group of three pictures is not a MKVC it is a MkIC. You can tell by the sharp nose differential housing. MKVC were only built with three piece differentials. The middle pic is certainly a MKVC but it is so covered with tracks it is impossible to tell if it has applique armor or not. The second group of photos misidentifies a MKIC composite hull as a MKVC, so it is no help either. There are plenty of pics of MKVs with applique in Normandy so it stands to reason that there were MKVC Firefly's with applique since they would have been converted from those same stocks. The problem with lack of pics might be attributed to the relative rarity of the Firefly in Normandy.
Regards, Bob

Bob, I agree that the Fireflys were rarer in Normandy than later. I wonder if the Sherman V Fireflys in Normandy used the unmodified M4A4's from the early production run, while tanks with the applique were from the later production run that had applique appplied at the factory. I checked my Hunnicutt Sherman book and the late M4A4's had full applique like many of the late Sherman V Fireflys.

I've often wondered about that myself. The Brits wouldn't have removed the applique from MKVs when they converted them, they didn't with the MK1Cs. You make a good point,maybe that is what happened. Still when you consider how few pics we have of Shermans from WW II (maybe 5% of the 20,000 produced)it's no wonder some variants are rarely seen.
Regards,Bob

It's not possible to say for certain without a photo as Fireflies with or without applique were not differentiated in either the unit records or in how they were allocated to units. A Vc was a Vc whether or not it had applique.

That said, there's no reason why the FGH could _not_ have had Vcs with applique in Normandy, especially if they had at least one in Holland a couple months later.



Decalomaniacs does a sheet that has been reviewed here on Armorama.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/7220

These are pretty good, although the method of manufacture (ALPS printer) means that the gold in the maple leaves in the brigade sign is a bit pixelated.

Archer Fine Transfers does several Canadian sheets and one is for the 2nd Armoured Brigade, however the maple leaf in the centre of the formation sigh is the modern leaf and NOT the correct leaf for the period. Strangely, the decals for the 1st Cdn Arm'd Bde _do_ have the right leaf, not that this does you any good.

Archer also has decals for the tac signs of the brigade but these are pretty simple (a white "52" on a red square with a 2" white stripe along the bottom edge of the tac sign) and you could cobble them up from other sources, if you want.

The 2nd Cdn Arm'd Bde sign is the complicated one and I _think_ the Decalomaniac sheet is the only one available.


Georg sells these through Ebay, I think.

HTH

Paul