Hi all

Just wondering

Why are badger airbrushes no longer popular, they have been making them for years with just about every custom car artist in the 70's using the still available 150 but now every time someone asks for a recomendation thay are told to buy an Iwata, what's wrong with the current badger lineup, I know some are very old like the 150 & 200 but the likes of the anthems and patriots are new and upto date, why are they no longer used in modelling.

I have quite a few badgers and iwatas and to be honest I cannot tell them appart when I am using them, so appart from the extra cost what is it with iwatas.

Thanks

Paul

I have two Badger airbrushes that have given me great service, however Badger does not seem to push its products within this hobby as heavily as some of the others which will impact sales.

Like said above, Badger doesn`t advertise quite as well as others. They also tend to have a bit more trouble with the very fine work, but they can technically produce good results and are affordable. I`ve seen a few Euromilitaire prize winners painted with 150`s.

i have a patriot and i love it easy to use and to clean
dave

Hi

I think a lot of it is perception..

Some perceive that the more expensive items are the best, and at some point it might have been true, as for being true today, I don't know as that is mainly a matter of personal experience.

I for one have several Badger's and love them.

Badger 175 Cresendo
Badger 360 Universal
Badger Renegade Velocity.

and soon to add a Badger Krome (soon I hope)..

I started with a Badger 100, then a 150, which I still have, & may use for future/varnishes, lacquers etc.

I always found them picky as to setup/paint thinning ratios & use, but most of all because they are a pain to clean!

But my tool of choice now is an Iwata CS with a 0.5mm head/needle for acrylics, because it is way more forgiving of setup & thinning, is very easy to use & cleans up very easily.
The CS also suits my method of working, (beginner+ level) & I think worth my hard-earned.

EDIT: the a/b's mentioned by our new-world cousins are a lot newer than the ones I mention, are of course a generation ahead of them, and seem a lot easier to get hold of in the US, (or harder to get in the UK?)
At the end of the day, it depends what you can get, bangs/buck ratio & what you are comfy with.

I moved from an Iwata to a Badger Renegade Krome, I would recommend it to anyone.

To give you an idea of how Badgers poor advertising is affecting their sales (in the UK at least) I went to a HobbyCraft store in the UK about a year ago now and asked about a needle and crown for a Badger airbrush and they had no idea who they were. HobbyCraft is a nationwide store in the UK and when I get that answer from them you have to question how Badgers sales are being affected.

I don't know but I like my Badger 150,very easy to use and clean.I does all I need it to do.

I've used a Badger 200 since the mid-70's. I've painted a lot of IPMS and AMPS regional and national winners with it. It's only been over the last few years, though, where it's a "big deal" for model-builders to promote the airbrush brand and model that they use. Maybe that has something to do with how easy it is to exchange information on the internet.

Also, a lot of the top model builders (especially in Europe but becoming more prevelent also in the US) seem to approach model building from a very commercial aspect, and promotion of paints, airbrushes, "finishing systems," and AM brands seems to make up a big part of any articles or other information that you read on their builds. This trend has has done a lot to make "average Joes" more conscious of "keeping up with the Jones" and buying the latest greatest just to be able to say that they use the same whatever that (insert well-known modeler's name here) uses.

The durablity and reliability of my airbrush might also work against Badger, though. With no "planned obselecence," my airbrush has just kept on painting model after model, so it's not often that I even think about it, much less consider a replacement.

I can't speak for Badger's marketing in other places, but in the Eastern US, they have spent a lot of promotional resources on the model-building community.

Badger has presented airbrushing seminars at the AMPS International show for several years, and just last year, I attended a local IPMS show and contest in Fayetteville, NC, where Badger donated several airbrushes for the "best of" class and show winners (the "Best of Show" winner airbrush was even engraved by Badger).

It could be that they've realized that they were losing some market share and have stepped up their promotion efforts over the last couple of years.

At any rate, Badger is good kit. In the US, their airbrushes are very reasonably priced and readily available. I don't hesitate to recommend them to anyone who asks.

My .02...

Thanks for the replies.

Nice to know I am not the only modeller to use a badger then. I have the 200, 150, 155 Anthem and a 100 which is my favourite, I must admit I never have any issues with any of them, I also a a couple of Iwatas as well both Revolutions CR and BR but much prefer the badgers to use.

Paul

Badger 200D, 155, 350 and 250

Had a couple of Aztec/Testors before I bought the 200D and 155

My airbrushes are all Badgers:
350
155
Renegade Velocity
looking to obtain a Krome soon.

G

I had a 150 (bottom feed) but found it a bit difficult to clean and it pulsated a bit. With bottom feed in general it is difficult to paint with only a few drop of paint. I switched over to the 100 (top feed) and I am very happy with it, I don't think I'll ever need a different AB for my modelling work. I have friends who have very expenive AB's and maybe they are a bit better at the very fine work but they have more maintenance and cleaning issues. I think the Badger 100 is very forgiving. It was also the main brand my LHS used to sell.

I have a Badger AB that is so old I've forgotten long ago where or when I bought it, but I can tell you I was painting with it 35 years ago. It's SO old, it has no model number engraved on it..it just says "Badger Air Brush". That brush has painted portraits, illustrations, retouched photos, and every model I have built in that time. I'd be ashamed to show a pic of it, as it looks like 35 years of war, but it's still my go-to, always works brush. It always works.

I've had a 150 for about 25 years, but for the last five or six years I've been using an Iwata HP-C+. I find the Iwata uses far less paint, is superior for detail work, and I actually enjoy airbrushing with it!

I get far more control from the Iwata.

The only thing the 150 does better is applying single colours to larger areas.

I don't find one or the other any harder to clean.

Hi i started with a badger 200, 25 years on and ive used 3 paasches 2 azteks 4 awatas ,badgers revamped 200,and now i realise the original 200 has better control durability and cheap parts.they also have rebranded the original 200 as a detail brush .
Also sorry darren but hobbycraft is as far away as you can get to a model shop,they once stocked badger brushes but people got fed up paying top dollar(or pound)!

I have 2 badgers and 1 Iawata. I prefer the badgers

I used to use a badger 150 and 200 ( Bottom feed). I found them adequate for the applications I was using them for. They were tedious to clean though. I recently purchased an Aztec, and my Badger is no longer used. The Aztec is a gravity cup, which I find much easier to use, it is dual action, and cleanup is a breeze. I havent owned it long enough yet to need to replace the plastic tips, but I can see that as the only downfall. The tips are bound to need replacing alot faster than a Badgers brass tip. Just my two cents...

So, what IS easier to use? A bottom feed or gravity feed and is there a lid for the gravity system so it won't spill?

I selected a bottom/siphon feed set with an internal mix (whatever that means). Hope I did the right thing as it's my first airbrush set.

There are so many to pick from.









~ Jeff

I've never used a bottom feeding airbrush but I have used side mounted cups (Aztek and Iwata) and I find the gravity fed ones (Badger Renegade Krome and Premi-Air G35) a little easier to use. I never use the paint cup cover on my gravity feed brushes either, that way I can check the level, top up the paint easily and then start cleaning quick too. I rarely spill anything but you do have to have an airbrush holder if you want to set it down with the cover cup off.

What I know about airbrushing could fit in a thimble, but I've had a badger for several years now and absolutely love it. It's low maintenance and gives great results. A few years back I got a Paasche cause I read somewhere they were better, but it was a disaster. The thing was moody and inconsistent and demanded alot of work to keep it running right. I treat my badger very like crap, and it still gives me great results.

I have used Badger Airbrushes for 40 years. They're customer service is outstanding also.
Mike

Badger makes a 1/4 oz color cup that's a friction fit onto their models 150 thru 200 airbrushes that makes the bottom/siphon feed work in practice just like a top feed AB. I've used mine so long that I can't remember the last time I actually put a paint jar on my AB.

(The "friction fit" sounds like a messy accident waiting to happen, but I've never had the cup fall off - never.)

A 1/4 oz might seem like too little paint, but really for 9 out of 10 painting jobs on models, that's more than enough. It saves paint, makes clean-up easier, and allows the use of lower air pressures for finer lines.

If I ever need more paint than that, I just mix it in a jar and transfer it to the color cup using an eye dropper (which I also use to draw the paint and thinners from their jars for mixing anyways).

Bottom feed means just that, the paint enters the AB from its bottom (as held in use). The paint is drawn into the AB by a siphoning and capillary action from the paint jar usually through a tube that sticks down into the paint.

Gravity feed AB have a paint cup located above the body (or on top) of the AB. The paint flows down into the AB by a combination of gravity and capillary action directly from the paint cup.

Bottom feed / siphon AB require slightly higher air pressure to draw the paint up to be atomized.

(The Badger paint cup that fits onto their series 150-200 AB hold the level of the paint even with the side of the AB and consequently, the paint flows into the AB more like a top / gravity feed brush than a bottom / siphon feed brush - allowing lower air pressures to be used for fine detail work.)

Since top / gravity feed AB don't need to create suction (from moving air) to draw paint into them, they can continue to work at very low air pressures.

Internal mix means that the paint and pressurized air mix internally in (usually) the tip of the AB to produce the atomized mix that is actually sprayed.

Internal mix brushes generally allow better control of the amount of paint being drawn into the air-paint mix and consequently better control of how much paint is applied to the surface.

The paint flow is controlled by the needle which is moved in and out to open and close a hole in the paint tip. This movement can either be by screwing the needled nut (single-action) or moving the trigger (double-action since the trigger also controls the air flow).

Single-action internal mix AB's are much easier to learn to use, although guys who use a double-action brush might disagree. Generally speaking though, most model builders don't actually vary the width of paint lines using the double-action feature and use their double-action brushes like single-action brushes. (I've watched enough model air brushing demos to know.)

An external mix AB atomizes the paint externally as the pressurized air is blown across the tip of the paint siphon. They generally work better at higher air pressures making detail work difficult.

External mix AB also have coarser paint volume control which limits the lower range of paint volume being applied, so again they're not as suitable for fine detail spraying.

With experience, none of these AB variations are particularly "easier" or "harder" to use than the others, but they each have their own pros and cons depending on your requirements.

External mix, bottom / siphon feed AB's are very simple in design and manufacture (making then relatively cheap) and are usually easier to clean. They are very easy to use, but are very limited in what can be done with them. At their most basic level, they're like using "rattle can" paints that have unlimited color options and paint types (since you mix your own).

From there, complexity (and cost) go up, along with the AB's ability to work at lower air pressures and produce finer lines. However, with complexity comes more difficulty in use and the need to control air pressure and quality (i.e. no moisture) to get the most from the AB's capability.

When ever anyone asks me about which is best, I usually suggest that they look hard and honest at the kinds of painting that they actually do when finishing models.

A very expensive AB that will give pencil-fine lines might be nice to think about having, but if you don't actually paint like that or if you don't enjoy the though of cleaning and maintaining a fiddly AB, then that's probably not the best AB for you. Also, finding just the right "sweet spot" for any paint/thinner ratio along with the best air pressure and paint flow requires a willingness to experiment. These variables also change constantly with ambient humidity and temperature, so experience counts for a lot.

Manufacturing costs for AB's have gone down dramatically over the last few years (for many reasons), so complex AB's that were once only used by professional graphics artists are now affordable by many model builders. However, once a lot of guys get those "top of the line" AB's they're often frustrated by how finicky they are to use and by how aggravating they are to clean.

Also, without matching compressor set-ups to allow for low consistent air pressures, these same guys are not able to take advantage of the AB's capabilities, and then become unreasonably critical claiming that the AB doesn't live up to its advertising.

Match the AB to the job and your building / finishing style and you'll be very happy. Try starting off with "more" AB than you really need, and you'll find the whole adventure just one big frustration.

A bottom / siphon feed, internal mix Badger 200 with a 1/4 oz color cup (or equivalent) and a reliable diaphragm air compressor will give most model builders nearly 100% of what they actually want and need in an AB. Once you've maxed out that capability (because your skill and finishing style have reached more advanced levels), then you'll have the experience and knowledge to select a second or third AB to fill your new requirements.

HTH,