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Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
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USMC NCO Ranks in Vietnam?
joegrafton
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United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
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Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 10:11 PM UTC
Hi,
I'm building the Bronco M114A1 155mm Howitzer (Vietnam) in 1/35th scale & I'm in the process of painting the crew figures at this time (total of seven).
I was wondering if I should show USMC NCO ranks displayed on the arms of the fatigue jacket. Would this be correct & if so, what would be the highest rank present?
How many NCO's would there be in any one crew, what would be their positions in that crew & what would their badges of rank look like; ie: how many chevrons/how many rockers?
Thanks for your help.

Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, May 04, 2012 - 04:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi,
I'm building the Bronco M114A1 155mm Howitzer (Vietnam) in 1/35th scale & I'm in the process of painting the crew figures at this time (total of seven).
I was wondering if I should show USMC NCO ranks displayed on the arms of the fatigue jacket. Would this be correct & if so, what would be the highest rank present?
How many NCO's would there be in any one crew, what would be their positions in that crew & what would their badges of rank look like; ie: how many chevrons/how many rockers?
Thanks for your help.

Joe.



normally no would be the answer, but I have seen the new guys wearing stripes and such. They soon rid themselves of anykind of rank. Officers might have insignia, but it will usually be black and very subdued. Clothing didn't last all that long, so the next shirt you got would be bare of anything including your rank and branch of service. For a gun crew you might be looking at E-6 all the way down to E-3, and nobody would be caught wearing rank

Your doing Khe Shan in the middle of the monsoon season. It get's chilly up there in January, but don't put field jackets on the crew if they are shooting. (saftey issue), but the Marines did force flak jackets on their crews. There are several styles of flak jackets, and the ones that most Marines used was slightly different than the one I was issued, and I have seen them with subdued rank painted on them! I've seen low fifties and even high forties up in those mountains, so you need to take that into account.
gary
MikeMummey
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: February 09, 2005
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Posted: Friday, May 04, 2012 - 04:50 AM UTC
Howdy Joe, the USMC has not had rank insignia on the sleeves of the field uniform since the late 50s(early 60's?). Enlisted rank for field uniforms are a small metal pin on device consisting of stripes, crossed rifles and rockers depending on rank that go on the collar of the utility jacket or field jacket. Here is a link to wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_enlisted_rank_insignia
In the one chart there is an example of a Black Metal insignia for a Staff Sergeant(E-6). As far as the gun crew ranks that would not always be according to TO(Table of Organization)especially in a combat situation. Typically you will have a Staff Sergeant(E-6) or Sergeant(E-5) running the gun crew. Throw in another Sergeant and maybe a couple of Corporals(E-4)and the rest filled out by Lance Corporals(E-3), PFCs(E-2) and Pvts(E-1). If your gun bunnies are wearing the old sateen utility uniform they would also have the USMC and Eagle, Globe and Anchor stenciled on the left breast pocket. If they are wearing the green rip stop uniform that was issued in country the pocket could be plain.
Outta here, Mike sends . . .
joegrafton
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United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
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Posted: Friday, May 04, 2012 - 09:02 AM UTC
Hi fellas,
Thanks for getting back to me.
Yeah, I'm doing Khe Sanh January '68 so no early utilities & I guess no rank insignia.
All the figures do have flak jackets on & I'm going to use Mec Models grafitti decals to add slogans on flak jackets & helmets. Hopefully, they'll come out quite good. I'll keep you posted!

Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, May 04, 2012 - 09:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy Joe, the USMC has not had rank insignia on the sleeves of the field uniform since the late 50s(early 60's?). Enlisted rank for field uniforms are a small metal pin on device consisting of stripes, crossed rifles and rockers depending on rank that go on the collar of the utility jacket or field jacket. Here is a link to wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_enlisted_rank_insignia
In the one chart there is an example of a Black Metal insignia for a Staff Sergeant(E-6). As far as the gun crew ranks that would not always be according to TO(Table of Organization)especially in a combat situation. Typically you will have a Staff Sergeant(E-6) or Sergeant(E-5) running the gun crew. Throw in another Sergeant and maybe a couple of Corporals(E-4)and the rest filled out by Lance Corporals(E-3), PFCs(E-2) and Pvts(E-1). If your gun bunnies are wearing the old sateen utility uniform they would also have the USMC and Eagle, Globe and Anchor stenciled on the left breast pocket. If they are wearing the green rip stop uniform that was issued in country the pocket could be plain.
Outta here, Mike sends . . .



even in late 1967 and early 1968 it was not uncommon to see a guy wearing a shirt cut the way they did in the 1950's. I even saw a few of the cuffless shirts here and there. I don't actually remember when they started issueing jungle fatigues, but even in mid 1968 you saw a lot people wearing state side fatigues, and in the mountains they were held at a premium because they were heavier and warmer at night. Your just liable to see anything.
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, May 04, 2012 - 09:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi fellas,
Thanks for getting back to me.
Yeah, I'm doing Khe Sanh January '68 so no early utilities & I guess no rank insignia.
All the figures do have flak jackets on & I'm going to use Mec Models grafitti decals to add slogans on flak jackets & helmets. Hopefully, they'll come out quite good. I'll keep you posted!

Joe.



as a rule jungle fatigues were always the norm, but a lot of folks also brought their stateside fatigues and boots over with them. Then when the cleared out they often just gave that extra stuff away, so it kept on being passed down. Hell I had a field jacket with a major's junk all over it, and at least one shirt (got me into more than one "O Club"). I mean what are they gonna do? Send you back home and go strait to jail or something? Fat chance!
gary
AgentG
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Nevada, United States
Joined: December 21, 2008
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Posted: Friday, May 04, 2012 - 10:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Howdy Joe, the USMC has not had rank insignia on the sleeves of the field uniform since the late 50s(early 60's?). Enlisted rank for field uniforms are a small metal pin on device consisting of stripes, crossed rifles and rockers depending on rank that go on the collar of the utility jacket or field jacket. Here is a link to wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_enlisted_rank_insignia
In the one chart there is an example of a Black Metal insignia for a Staff Sergeant(E-6). As far as the gun crew ranks that would not always be according to TO(Table of Organization)especially in a combat situation. Typically you will have a Staff Sergeant(E-6) or Sergeant(E-5) running the gun crew. Throw in another Sergeant and maybe a couple of Corporals(E-4)and the rest filled out by Lance Corporals(E-3), PFCs(E-2) and Pvts(E-1). If your gun bunnies are wearing the old sateen utility uniform they would also have the USMC and Eagle, Globe and Anchor stenciled on the left breast pocket. If they are wearing the green rip stop uniform that was issued in country the pocket could be plain.
Outta here, Mike sends . . .



even in late 1967 and early 1968 it was not uncommon to see a guy wearing a shirt cut the way they did in the 1950's. I even saw a few of the cuffless shirts here and there. I don't actually remember when they started issueing jungle fatigues, but even in mid 1968 you saw a lot people wearing state side fatigues, and in the mountains they were held at a premium because they were heavier and warmer at night. Your just liable to see anything.
gary



My comment was always "What are they gonna do, fire me?"

My "jungle fatigues" faded to a point where they looked a yellowish tan color on the lower legs. Lots of times we wore flak jackets over Tshirts due to the heat, but that was a strict NONO. See above comment.
After a while you wore the utility jacket anyway, because the bugs got to you.

G
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 05:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Howdy Joe, the USMC has not had rank insignia on the sleeves of the field uniform since the late 50s(early 60's?). Enlisted rank for field uniforms are a small metal pin on device consisting of stripes, crossed rifles and rockers depending on rank that go on the collar of the utility jacket or field jacket. Here is a link to wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_enlisted_rank_insignia
In the one chart there is an example of a Black Metal insignia for a Staff Sergeant(E-6). As far as the gun crew ranks that would not always be according to TO(Table of Organization)especially in a combat situation. Typically you will have a Staff Sergeant(E-6) or Sergeant(E-5) running the gun crew. Throw in another Sergeant and maybe a couple of Corporals(E-4)and the rest filled out by Lance Corporals(E-3), PFCs(E-2) and Pvts(E-1). If your gun bunnies are wearing the old sateen utility uniform they would also have the USMC and Eagle, Globe and Anchor stenciled on the left breast pocket. If they are wearing the green rip stop uniform that was issued in country the pocket could be plain.
Outta here, Mike sends . . .



even in late 1967 and early 1968 it was not uncommon to see a guy wearing a shirt cut the way they did in the 1950's. I even saw a few of the cuffless shirts here and there. I don't actually remember when they started issueing jungle fatigues, but even in mid 1968 you saw a lot people wearing state side fatigues, and in the mountains they were held at a premium because they were heavier and warmer at night. Your just liable to see anything.
gary



My comment was always "What are they gonna do, fire me?"

My "jungle fatigues" faded to a point where they looked a yellowish tan color on the lower legs. Lots of times we wore flak jackets over Tshirts due to the heat, but that was a strict NONO. See above comment.
After a while you wore the utility jacket anyway, because the bugs got to you.

G



the cotten tee shirts literally rotted off of you! There was never a chance of DX'ing in the rear as the REMF's got all the good stuff. I used to have my Mom send me over black ones about every three months (just the Fruit Of The Loom pocket tee shirts). It got to a point in my group that there were more black tee shirts than O.D. green ones! I had a real good supply sargent (after we got rid of the first one), but he still had trouble getting things we needed. When we went back to the rear they simply burnt our clothes and gave us clean or maybe if you were lucky, new stuff! I never was that lucky. But Fred and I did manage to steal a complete case of boot sox! Probably a hundred forty four pairs. Pants faded so bad that the took on a light green look (almost grey)

I remember somebody sent out rain suits in the middle of the monsoon season. What a Godsend! You put them on and actually sweated off five punds every four hours! In OTW they were worthless! But also remember getting wool long john tops delivered to us out on LZ West. Only could happen in the U.S. Military
gary
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