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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Brummbar Mid Production
wbill76
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 11:14 AM UTC
It's been a while since I posted a build log here on Armorama so thought I would rectify that.

Started on a new project this weekend, DML's kit #6460 Sdkfz 166 Stu.Pz. IV "Brummbar" Mid Production with Atak zim and MK workable tracks.



A new project means starting at the beginning...so as you would expect with a Dragon Pz IV kit, Step 1 meant spending a lot of time on the sprockets, idlers, return rollers, and road wheels. I found a reference pic of one of the 3 vehicles the kit markings provide for, the Command version #1, and used that as a guide to decide on the style of idlers and return rollers. All of the road wheel halves had their mold seams sanded away with a sanding stick but left unassembled to make it easier to paint them later on.

I also assembled a short run of 8 links of the MK set to double-check the spacing on the sprockets, idlers, and return rollers to make sure everything would play nice later on as well.





Step 2 deals with the rear hull plate and I installed that to the lower hull first and then added the details to avoid issues with stuff getting in the way of a good join. Some light sanding at the base of the plate was all that was required to get a good fit with the weld seam line there. The Atak zim panels for the rear were added using Gator Grip glue and regular liquid glue around the edges to tack things down where needed. I opted for the heavy-duty towing hitch since that was a regular feature on Pz IV chassis at the time the Mid version of Brummbar's were built.



Step 3 deals with the hull front and the addition of the final drive front base plates. It's a good idea to install the nose plate first and then add the final drive plates after as they are a tight fit due to the small bolt detail on the one side of the drive plates. The tow points were added and the pins needed some trimming to fit correctly in the openings. Once that was set, I added the bolt-on armor plate for the nose underside from Step 6 and the installed the zim panels. Some slight putty work was needed between the joins on the two plate panels, easily taken care of with some Squadron White putty and a little sanding.



Next up will be the suspension and lower hull sides.
PantherF
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 12:08 PM UTC
Very nice! I love these vehicles so much and I know this will be a build to watch!

Thanks Bill!








~ Jeff
panzerbob01
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 03:55 PM UTC
Bill P.;

Hi! Ditto on Jeff above!

So... question: why did you sand off all the wheel seams? Just curious - but I've been led to believe that real Pz IV often appear to have sported those as a feature of all but well-worn tires. And I suppose that these things may not have driven a lot of miles (km).

Bob
wbill76
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Posted: Monday, May 07, 2012 - 03:06 AM UTC
Jeff, glad to have you along for the ride!

Bob, thanks as well! As to your question on the road wheels, that's true for brand new wheels with no wear/use. The seam was the result of the way the tires were joined to the wheel hubs and is a very fine seam on the real deal. All Pz's were test driven before shipped to the depots and it wouldn't take much driving on the steel tracks (along with abrasion from dirt, mud, etc.) before that seam would wear away and you would have a smooth tire. Hence the reason for removing the seam. I leave the seam in place on spares that haven't been used for example. If you wanted to show the tires as new, you would not be wrong to leave the seam in place but I choose to show the wear. HTH!
hedorah59
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Posted: Monday, May 07, 2012 - 03:33 AM UTC
I always enjoy your build logs, Bill - I'm glad to see a new one, I'll be following along.
Totalize
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Posted: Monday, May 07, 2012 - 10:26 AM UTC
Bill,

Looking forward to this one.

BTW what supplier do you get your Model Kasten tracks from? I am looking for a reliable source for these tracks.

Dave.
Big-John
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Posted: Monday, May 07, 2012 - 10:43 AM UTC
Im my own opion, removing the seam from the tires makes for a much cleaner and better looking build.

Looking very good Bill.
spitfire303
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Posted: Monday, May 07, 2012 - 11:23 AM UTC
Good to see you back professor I was kinda missing your very detailed builds. Just make this one... dirty one

cheers

spit
SDavies
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Posted: Monday, May 07, 2012 - 07:13 PM UTC
Great start on a not often seen model on this forum

Looking forward to your progress

S
wbill76
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Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 03:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bill,

Looking forward to this one.

BTW what supplier do you get your Model Kasten tracks from? I am looking for a reliable source for these tracks.

Dave.



I use RZM Imports as my source of MK tracks. http://www.rzm.com HTH!

Kirk, Stephen, glad to have you along for the ride!

John, I'm in agreement with you on the "look and feel" side of things.

Spit, no worries, it will have it's fair share of weathering when the time comes!
wbill76
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Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 10:55 AM UTC
Continuing on from last week, this week's efforts focused on the lower hull and suspension.

Step 4 adds the base mounts for the suspension along with the bump stops and the rear towing hooks. The Atak panels for the lower hull are provided as a large single piece and some trimming was necessary here and there to get things to fit properly but otherwise no major issues were encountered. From experience, I know that the front piece that curves over the final drive will interfere with the fenders when it comes time to install so I cut that short on purpose to head off that issue.





Step 5 returns to the hull rear and adds the idler mounts and the exhaust. The instructions provide a choice of type of idler mount and after checking reference photos I went with the parts B15/14 as those are the later style appropriate for this vehicle's production time line. The multi-part muffler was assembled and the exhaust pipe thinned out with a drill bit and some trimming with the tip of a sharp #11 blade. I had to trim the Atak panels a bit more to allow the pipe support trays to fit correctly in this area as well.



Step 6 installs the hull glacis plate and the Atak set includes a resin replacement with separate parts for the transmission/brake access hatches. Those were added using CA gel and the narrow panel for the full front plate zim added along with a little putty to round things out in that department. The glacis spare track run will get installed later after the hull is painted to make it easier to detail it at that stage.



Step 6 also calls for the road wheels and suspension elements to be installed. The road wheels were left off for now but the suspension elements were added. They have just a little bit of play to them so it's important to get them all lined up correctly so that the vehicle will sit level later on.



That brought me to Step 7 which deals with the assembly of the fenders and their installation to the hull. I added the front mud flaps first along with their zim panels, carefully trimming them to avoid the interference problem mentioned previously with the lower hull sides. The kit designers didn't build in any tolerance levels for zim interaction in these areas so the added fractional mm that the zim creates causes issues if not dealt with accordingly.

The fenders were then installed using regular glue along the hull edges where they overlap and liquid glue at the rear where they sit flush. After that had set up, I added the rear mud flaps and finally the spacer parts between the schurzen mounts. The spacer parts don't have a large surface area that they attach to so it made sense to install them after the fenders were in place to avoid them coming loose or getting skewed accidentally during the fender installation. I also did a test fit with the casemate to be sure everything was playing nice at this stage.



Next up will be the upper hull elements!
PantherF
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Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 11:23 AM UTC
Like a successful surgery, this is turning out very nice!

Love the zimm work and I might try it someday.









~ Jeff
wbill76
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Posted: Monday, May 14, 2012 - 04:42 AM UTC
Thanks Jeff. Surgery is an apt description and the patient is progressing as planned. You should give the Atak sets a whirl, they are my preferred option for zim for many reasons.
Charlie-66
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Posted: Monday, May 14, 2012 - 04:52 AM UTC
Bill, very nice build so far, and it is nice to see you back at it. I always enjoy your build logs!
Braille
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Posted: Monday, May 14, 2012 - 05:12 PM UTC
@wbill76 – Bill,

What a wonderful delight to see you building and posting here again. You’ve chosen an interesting and as mentioned above a not so often seen subject to build, I will be following this one.

I don’t have any experience using the resin Zimmerit sets but I do have a few of these in the stash. My question to you here is, will the liquid cement attack this medium? The reason I am asking is because I have found that by adding small amounts of liquid cement (Testors) to Squadrons white or green putty, just enough to liquefy the putty, I am able to then apply small amounts of the liquefied putty directly to areas with a fine (No. 2) paint brush (such as on the seam between the upper and lower hull Zimmerit panels on your build) with very little putty spilling over the surrounding areas. I do this in areas where shrinkage is not really noticeable, although shrinkage with using the liquid cement is very little when the putty sets up. Before the putty gets a chance to set up hard, or even if it has, I take a clean paintbrush dampened with liquid cement to clean up, touch up or blend in the putty to the surrounding areas. This method has eliminated the need for me to do any sanding. (Just make sure to do this in a well ventilated room / area). I hope that I have explained this correctly?

~ Eddy
GregCloseCombat
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 02:32 AM UTC
Hi Bill, another fan here
wbill76
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 04:58 AM UTC
Greg and Guy, thanks for the comments and glad to have you following along!


Quoted Text

@wbill76 – Bill,

What a wonderful delight to see you building and posting here again. You’ve chosen an interesting and as mentioned above a not so often seen subject to build, I will be following this one.

I don’t have any experience using the resin Zimmerit sets but I do have a few of these in the stash. My question to you here is, will the liquid cement attack this medium? The reason I am asking is because I have found that by adding small amounts of liquid cement (Testors) to Squadrons white or green putty, just enough to liquefy the putty, I am able to then apply small amounts of the liquefied putty directly to areas with a fine (No. 2) paint brush (such as on the seam between the upper and lower hull Zimmerit panels on your build) with very little putty spilling over the surrounding areas. I do this in areas where shrinkage is not really noticeable, although shrinkage with using the liquid cement is very little when the putty sets up. Before the putty gets a chance to set up hard, or even if it has, I take a clean paintbrush dampened with liquid cement to clean up, touch up or blend in the putty to the surrounding areas. This method has eliminated the need for me to do any sanding. (Just make sure to do this in a well ventilated room / area). I hope that I have explained this correctly?

~ Eddy



Thanks for the tip Eddy on the putty + liquid cement, have to give that one a try since I use Squadron white on a regular basis. Since the zim panels and parts are resin, the liquid cement doesn't have any effect on it although it will of course soften the underlying plastic it is attached to if there are gaps for the glue to get into. That's why I use the liquid cement to seal the edges of the panel, just brush a little there and let the capillary action pull it under the panel...then apply some finger pressure and hold until the liquid glue does its trick with the underlying styrene and bonds to the resin panel. I only sand the edges of the panels when there's a slight "lip" has trimming with a #11 blade can sometimes result in more resin being removed than you might like if not very careful!
wbill76
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 01:33 PM UTC
My wife had a school event this evening so I was left home alone...and decided to sneak in a little extra bench time to take advantage of the situation!

Step 8 is a prep step that assembles the side air intakes and the rear engine deck top as well as the rear plate...and then puts them all off to the side until Step 17. There's no real reason to wait that long so I went ahead and assembled the rear hull and installed it into the lower hull. The Atak set includes a replacement rear hull plate but it doesn't have the spare wheel holder parts attached to it, so those will have to be transplanted from the DML kit part later on. It's also important to note that in Step 8 the diagram isn't very clear in how the step plate over the muffler/exhaust installs...it has three L-shaped support arms that install to the back of the plate and support the plate over the exhaust. The Atak side panels were added as well at this point.



The installation into the hull in Step 17 includes the install of the rear bulkhead, the tread plate floor for the fighting compartment, and the gun mount base. The base is a 4 part affair that has to be assembled just so or it won't be possible to fit it into the hull in the correct position. You cannot assemble it outside the hull as the diagrams indicate and then install it as one piece into the hull. This is due to the way the two side supports interact with the hull...they have slots in their sides to fit into the angled "ribs" molded into the lower hull and also slots on their feet that match up with tabs on the hull floor. You have to install these first, then position the top part, D7, within the hull at a slight angle to clear the fender edges, then turn D7 to sit properly and flush on the side feet. The front support should be glued to D7 prior to doing this. It took me a couple of different attempts to figure this out, hence the glue marks on the hull floor you see in the photo.



The interior tread plate part, D6, should then install into position between the rear bulkhead and the gun mount. A test fit showed this was no problem and while my back was turned to take the photo above, my beloved boxer Brenda somehow managed to get hold of the plate. She only had it for a few seconds but the damage was done as she's a "power chewer"!



It's not a big loss as I wasn't planning to display the hatches open for the interior and this sealed it for sure if I did have any doubts otherwise!

Next up will be working on the 15cm gun assembly.
SDavies
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 07:13 PM UTC
Oh no, sorry about the damage to the floor. I was going to ask if you were going to add an interior to your great looking kit and I guess that I have my answer

S
F3066
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 07:48 PM UTC
nice battle damage
wbill76
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Posted: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 04:52 AM UTC
Steven, this kit just kind of screams for an interior what wit the large roof hatches that can be displayed open along with the rear split hatches but I didn't have any plans in that department for this particular project.

F3066, the dog's teeth approximate in-scale damage pretty well but it's not exactly a "controllable" method!
trickymissfit
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Posted: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 05:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Continuing on from last week, this week's efforts focused on the lower hull and suspension.

Step 4 adds the base mounts for the suspension along with the bump stops and the rear towing hooks. The Atak panels for the lower hull are provided as a large single piece and some trimming was necessary here and there to get things to fit properly but otherwise no major issues were encountered. From experience, I know that the front piece that curves over the final drive will interfere with the fenders when it comes time to install so I cut that short on purpose to head off that issue.





Step 5 returns to the hull rear and adds the idler mounts and the exhaust. The instructions provide a choice of type of idler mount and after checking reference photos I went with the parts B15/14 as those are the later style appropriate for this vehicle's production time line. The multi-part muffler was assembled and the exhaust pipe thinned out with a drill bit and some trimming with the tip of a sharp #11 blade. I had to trim the Atak panels a bit more to allow the pipe support trays to fit correctly in this area as well.



Step 6 installs the hull glacis plate and the Atak set includes a resin replacement with separate parts for the transmission/brake access hatches. Those were added using CA gel and the narrow panel for the full front plate zim added along with a little putty to round things out in that department. The glacis spare track run will get installed later after the hull is painted to make it easier to detail it at that stage.



Step 6 also calls for the road wheels and suspension elements to be installed. The road wheels were left off for now but the suspension elements were added. They have just a little bit of play to them so it's important to get them all lined up correctly so that the vehicle will sit level later on.



That brought me to Step 7 which deals with the assembly of the fenders and their installation to the hull. I added the front mud flaps first along with their zim panels, carefully trimming them to avoid the interference problem mentioned previously with the lower hull sides. The kit designers didn't build in any tolerance levels for zim interaction in these areas so the added fractional mm that the zim creates causes issues if not dealt with accordingly.

The fenders were then installed using regular glue along the hull edges where they overlap and liquid glue at the rear where they sit flush. After that had set up, I added the rear mud flaps and finally the spacer parts between the schurzen mounts. The spacer parts don't have a large surface area that they attach to so it made sense to install them after the fenders were in place to avoid them coming loose or getting skewed accidentally during the fender installation. I also did a test fit with the casemate to be sure everything was playing nice at this stage.



Next up will be the upper hull elements!



Bill,

do you have a source for the ATAK Zimmerit in the states? Every once in awhile I can find it on Ebay or a trader's forum.

Also good to see Pawl!
gary
wbill76
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Posted: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 10:54 AM UTC
Gary,

I don't buy the sets very often as I typically will buy the set at the same time (or close to it) as I get the kit. Used to use GreatModels for them but then started buying direct from Poland as the shipping on them is minimal and total price was still cheaper than if purchased from a US retailer.
wbill76
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Posted: Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 12:51 PM UTC
This weekend's round of bench time was very productive and work continued on the gun and superstructure. I decided to build the gun first as it's designed to go into a static mount in the fighting compartment and everything else revolves around it as a result in terms of fit and placement.

That meant skipping to Step 11 which assembles the gun and breech as well as the collar and recoil cylinders. The breech block can be left movable if you so desire and some sanding is necessary on the join halves of the breech but otherwise it's a straightforward step.



Step 12 combines the elements from the previous step and adds the recoil guards. Step 13 assembles part of the gunner's side of the gun mount by adding a choice of two different styles of traverse gears. I chose the simpler type for expediency.



Step 14 completes the gunner's side of the mount with the addition of the gunner's seat, the gun sight, and the elevation wheel. There's also a toothed gear that is added that the instructions indicate shouldn't be glued...I tried this out and found it to be unnecessary to allow the gun to elevate and omitted it since I'm closing up the interior anyhow. I suppose if you were really really careful with the glue you could find a way to make the gear actually "turn" with the gun as it elevates but it's not essential to the gun assembly in the long run.



Step 15 is the moment of truth, it adds all of the previous components together along with the base and ball mantlet to create the full gun assembly. The fit on E19, the ball mantlet, was too tight for the gun barrel to slide through so I had to trim and sand it with a round needle file on it's inside diameter to get the gun barrel to fit. Even then it was an extremely tight friction fit and a challenge to get it to slide all the way down. It also has to fit tightly over the side hinge points of the gun mount and the fit has to be just so for it all to work. I got it as far down onto the mount as I could make it go but I suspect that it needed to go about another 1mm or so to actually fit correctly. Unfortunately the friction fit made it impossible for me to remove it and try again...and this in turn resulted in some issues down the road in the following steps.



I added the interior plate from Step 9 and did a test fit with the gun mount dry-fit in place and sure enough, the mantlet interfered with the fit, causing the rear of the superstructure to not align properly with the fenders and engine deck...a major problem. This meant that the interior ring around the ball mount needed to be trimmed back to allow the mantlet to clear it. This was done with careful trial-and-error and much trimming and sanding.



This led me to wonder if the same issue might be encountered with the exterior circular plate, so I added the Atak zim panels and resin plate and did a test fit. It too had the same issue, so same trimming and sanding treatment was called for. I also used some Squadron White putty thinned with liquid cement to fill small gaps around the circular plate and create a unified look with the rest of the zim panels.



I decided to go ahead and zim the rest of the superstructure before installing it to the hull to make sure I didn't run into any more fit issues. I decided that I would not mount the schurzen rails and opted instead for just the small mount tabs as called out in Step 21. The tabs were installed first and the zim panels added after followed by the lifting hooks and pistol ports from Step 9. Small amounts of trimming were needed here and there and lots of test fits with the lower hull, so I'm glad I decided to zim first. I also opted for the command version "adler's nest" 2nd antenna mount and added that from Step 18.



With all that out of the way, it was time to install the superstructure to the lower hull. I used a combination of regular glue, liquid glue, rubber bands, and finger pressure to get a good join all around.



Next up will be the roof and small details and then I'll start in on the tracks.
Big-John
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Posted: Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 01:06 PM UTC
Looks like you’re making good progress on this one Bill. I bet you’re glad to get all those fit issues out of the way.

I'd like to let you in on a little tip. I started using "Mr. Dissolved Putty". It's already pre thinned and works like a charm. It's what I go to first for small seams. In most cases, all that’s needed to clean up the seam is a couple of swipes with your knife blade.
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