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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Sherman VVSS - A Final Definitive Answer plse
simon2301
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Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 03:54 AM UTC
Hello Everyone,

A hoary old chestnut I know but can we now try to finally put this one to bed. Can someone give everyone (especially me) a final definitive answer as to whether any M4 Shermans (British Sherman Is)had upswept return roller arms on their VVSS suspension? I don't mean straight arms with pillow blocks either

I know that Sherman IC Hybrids did so please let's not go there but what about rolled steel, welded hull Shermans?

The consensus of opinion is that it was never the case but given field modifications and interchangeability of parts surely there were some that bucked the trend.

So can someone please provide photographic evidence, evidence from the text of any book or any other tangible evidence that will put this to bed.

Thanking everyone in advance.

ALBOWIE
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Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 10:38 AM UTC
The only ones I have seen are on M4 105's in British and Polish Service in Italy and not universally. having looked at thousands of pictures of British Shermans and helped with a couple of titles devoted to them the 1c and 1b are the only vehicles I have seen them on other than some IIa's (again not all)
CHeers
Al
simon2301
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 - 03:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The only ones I have seen are on M4 105's in British and Polish Service in Italy and not universally. having looked at thousands of pictures of British Shermans and helped with a couple of titles devoted to them the 1c and 1b are the only vehicles I have seen them on other than some IIa's (again not all)
CHeers
Al


Thanks for replying Al. I know, I'm of the same opinion having like you been through many hundreds of photos and researched through all of the major sources. I'm just hoping someone can dig something out that would give us one final Sherman variant to model.
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 - 09:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The only ones I have seen are on M4 105's in British and Polish Service in Italy and not universally. having looked at thousands of pictures of British Shermans and helped with a couple of titles devoted to them the 1c and 1b are the only vehicles I have seen them on other than some IIa's (again not all)
CHeers
Al


Thanks for replying Al. I know, I'm of the same opinion having like you been through many hundreds of photos and researched through all of the major sources. I'm just hoping someone can dig something out that would give us one final Sherman variant to model.


Given the breadth of british Shermans I would think that there were too many to model now! Rarer variants would be the Sherman 1by. There are pics of Polish ones in 45 but I've nevr found a Brit one.
Cheers
Al
simon2301
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 - 04:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The only ones I have seen are on M4 105's in British and Polish Service in Italy and not universally. having looked at thousands of pictures of British Shermans and helped with a couple of titles devoted to them the 1c and 1b are the only vehicles I have seen them on other than some IIa's (again not all)
CHeers
Al


Thanks for replying Al. I know, I'm of the same opinion having like you been through many hundreds of photos and researched through all of the major sources. I'm just hoping someone can dig something out that would give us one final Sherman variant to model.


Given the breadth of british Shermans I would think that there were too many to model now! Rarer variants would be the Sherman 1by. There are pics of Polish ones in 45 but I've nevr found a Brit one.
Cheers
Al


I've never heard of a Sherman 1by, Al. You've got me intrigued. Any chance you can tell me where to find one on the web or elsewhere?

Cheers,

Simon
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 10:46 AM UTC
[quote][quote][quote]
Quoted Text


I've never heard of a Sherman 1by, Al. You've got me intrigued. Any chance you can tell me where to find one on the web or elsewhere?

Cheers,

Simon


Simon a Sherman 1by is an M4 (Sherman 1) 105mm (b) HVSS (y)
These are late 47 deg hull M4's as per the DML kit with a 105 instead of a 75mm main gun. The 1b were used in Italy by the Commonwealth and Polish forces. Pictures of Polish 1by exist and are on the web, I just don't have the link with me. There is speculation that the Canadians took some to NWE when they re located. I am at work at present and will try and post pics when I get home.
Al

Try this link of Polish Vehicles in Italy WW2:
http://www.cultura.marche.it/cultura/mostraguerra/default_sik.asp?page=503&order=id%3F
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 09:35 PM UTC
These are Polish ones immediately Postwar in Italy:




They had at least two. The US Army used them in the pacific as well and DML mistook them for M4A3 HVSS 105 when they released their kit of that type.
Cheers
Al
simon2301
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Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 12:25 AM UTC
Ahhh, I see now. Thanks Al

Cheers

Simon
Totalize
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Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 02:16 AM UTC
Simon,

There were M4's(Sherman I's) with the late upswept return roller arms. These existed as Re-manufactured M4's. Because the raised return roller arm was a late feature I would probably include the late cast final drive if I was doing a re-manufactured M4. Unfortunately, I don't think they were all that common and as a result a peruse through my photo references has initially turned up nothing. However, I will keep searching to see if I can find something.

Dave.
simon2301
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Posted: Friday, June 08, 2012 - 02:10 AM UTC
Sorry for the late reply, Dave and thanks for the great news. Hope you can dig something up as I would love to see them. Did they see action at all do you know?

All the best,

Simon


Quoted Text

Simon,

There were M4's(Sherman I's) with the late upswept return roller arms. These existed as Re-manufactured M4's. Because the raised return roller arm was a late feature I would probably include the late cast final drive if I was doing a re-manufactured M4. Unfortunately, I don't think they were all that common and as a result a peruse through my photo references has initially turned up nothing. However, I will keep searching to see if I can find something.

Dave.
PantherF
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Posted: Friday, June 08, 2012 - 03:30 AM UTC
Hey Al! Great pics!

Anyone know what is written on the side of the 1st tank, 3rd picture? That has an early suspension on it too!

Sorry, I'm a Sherman geek and soak up anything on them!








~ Jeff
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