Hi all,
I have just joined this site as a result of research i carried out with regards to the Tamiya Challenger 2 Desertised 1/35 tank kit...
was looking for reviews and articles and found this site to have some great stuff on the forums regarding this kit, as a result ive placed my order. I also ordered the voyager photo edge set( based on the pics of it compared to eduard it seemed to have more going for it than the pics supplied by Eduard)..
Any way ive had some expireience with Revell Aqua from 2 1/48 planes i am still working on and my question is what are your thoughts on this paint, ive been able to get little in the way of reviews regarding revell, heard some good things, but have a lot of trust in this site..I keep hearing about Vallejo paints, mostly good some bad, i can get Revell cheaper which is a plus, but really would i notice the difference between the 2 brands?
I am a brush painter, so this is a important factor, cant afford to buy an airbrush right now..
Any thoughts and opinions would be gratefully recieved...

No substitute for Vallejo, especially for brush painting.

Hi

I like many use Vallejo Model Color paints for both brush and airbrush use, but if I am going to brush paint my personal first point of call will always be Enamels, I don't know why but I always get a much better job when brush painting thinned enamels than I do with acrylics, I know its probably something I am doing wrong but with enamels I can get a much smoother and thinner coat of paint than I can get brush painting acrylics.

It might be worth you giving them a try.

Paul

thanks for your replys so far...

I hae used enamals in the past, i did a tamiya tiger 1/35 ten yeas ago, and to be honest i hate enamals, they are messy and smelly and i find them hard to work with and een harder to clean up after using them...
I am working currently on a spitfire mkIV 1/48 from revell, and have been using Revell aqua, i do dilute it with water and find it easy to work with compared to enamal have been pleased with the results so far with this paint.
But as i am now also going to do the Tamiya Challeger 2 Desertised, i need ew paints for it, so was hoping soeone could tell me the difference between revell aqua and vellijo model paint, does any one have expierience with both types?
If there is no real difference then ill stick with Reell as it is quite a bit cheaper, but must admit the colour range is a lot less than vallejo range....

Hi

If you try both I bet you will prefer Vallejo Paints to Revells. You will also find that the restricted Revell range quite limiting when trying to find Military colours.

Re your comments about the smell from using enamels, you can nowadays get low or even no odor thinners that make the use of enamels quite user friendly, but if you don't like using them then my comments are obviously pointless, but as I said I personally love brush painting with them I especially love the fact that once dry enamels have a much stronger bond then acrylics especially compared to Vallejo model Color paints that even once fully dry are quite fragile and easily damaged just from holding the model to paint it.

Paul

If your pallet is wide open and you can start with any paints you choose, then I recommend the Vallejos.

Use multiple, thin coats (you have to thin the paint as it comes from the dropper bottles) and protect with a clear top coat from a rattle can (which ever you're most comfortable with - enamel, lacquer, acrylic, flat, semi-gloss, or gloss). Using thin, multiple coats helps to prevent brush marks, but you have to be a little patient and allow the earlier coats to dry a bit.

You'll have to thin the Vallejos about 50:50 to brush them. I use the Vallejo thinner mixed half and half with water for my thinner.

Keep you brushes clean as you paint. Periodically rinse them to keep the bristles from "clumping" and the paint flowing. (This is the biggest difference in brushing acrylics vs. enamels - once the acrylics start to set in the brush, no amount of fresh paint will "re-activate" the earlier acryics. You just have to keep your brush clean.) Ordinairy tap water mixed with some grocery store glass cleaner works very well to clean the brushes.

Andre and Reaper paints have similar performance to the Vallejos, and Citadel (Games Workshop) acrylic paints work very nicely too. I actually prefer the Games Workshop metallic colors to all the others. I thin these with the same mix that I use with the Vallejos.

One thing all of these paints have in common is that they are specifically formulated for brush painting. You might find that washing your models in warm, soapy water and air-drying before you paint will help with adheasion. Also, you might find that priming or undercoating with a flat white or light gray rattle can spray paint will help too.

Vallejo also makes an airbrush thinner which will reduce their Model Color range and makes it suitable for spraying just like their Model Air range. This adds a lot of versatility to the Model Color paints.

Highly recommended!

If you choose to purchase an airbrush, the answer to this question would be completely different.
However, for brush painting I would say Vallejo as Scott pointed out. Vallejo offers a wide range of colors, they are acrylic for easy thinning and clean up, have a fast dry time, and they are extremely forgiving.

I know you are looking for input regarding paints for brushing, and I don't have a lot to say, other than my favorite airbrush paint, Tamiya, does NOT appear to be very good brush paint. I've used some Vallejo, and it does seem to work much better for brushing than Tamiya, but I don't have a lot of experience with other paints, and none at all with your Revell paints.

What I DID want to say, however, off topic, is that you will LOVE your tank. I have built one Tamiya Challenger 2, and have 2 more sitting in boxes, ready to be built in various versions, and I'm in the market for one more, to support an ARRV build based on the Chally 2. The Tamiya Chally 2 was a FABULOUS first build for me, went together like a dream, seems to have very nice detail, and just looks good! It was easy to build, no need for any filler at all, anywhere, no flash on the plastic. You picked a great first tank, IMHO! Good luck with it!

thanks for the replys so far...
Curt thank you for your words on the Chally:)
Just had an interesting first expirience with vallejo model color.
Before i do my chally i need to paint my BF109 1/8 marseille, ive finnally corrected all the mistakes i made during construction and my first botched paint attempt(colours looked wrong).. model now stripped to bare plastic...Getting the right 3 colours has been a night mare, any way after much research i settled on vallejo light blue for RLM65 (Light Blue), Revell Aqua light olive for RLM02 (Grey) and Revell Aqua Bronze Green for RLM71 (dk Green)...
I have tried Tamiya paints but found them not so good for brush painting, Revell ive found I can use well and is quite a forgiving paint, but limited in colour range. vallejo has a great colour range.
So after hearing so much "good things" about Vallejo i have to say im very disapointed with it, it drys up far to quickly i find, is not as good to brush as Revell, which i can keep working with much longer, it acts more like Tamiya paint in that respect and the worst thing i found, it scraches off the model with ease,so took the Valejo off the modell( alarmed by how easy it cam of too) i did a test on sample plastic, with a cocktail stick, the revell paint does not remove with ease, infact its allmost bullet proof, the Vallejo model color simply rubs of with little effort using cocktail stick...I even did a primer coat first on test piece to see if that was problem, and it still comes off, yet with Revell no prime coat needed and in contrast a lot tougher to remove...it also costs less...
I have to ask if all the people recommending vallejo have actualy tried Revell Aqua...I did read one review where the findings where the same as mine but with so much pro vallejo comments i wanted to find out for myself...Great colour, must admit, best pale blue match i could get, such a shame using it is not as good as Revell, and def dont like how easy it rubs and scraches off...Ill be sticking with revell now I think when ever possible...pity they dont do as many colours but its much better to use in my opinion and expierince...If you havent tried Revell yet, i really hope you give it a try, put it to the test like i did...I hope you let me know what you think
Oh and heres the link to the Revell test/review i mentioned earlier:)

VALLEJO in one coat brushing.Its all I use I havent had any problems.

oopsss....Heres the link for Revell review...
http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/archive/revell-aqua-color-paint-review-for-brushing__o_t__t_21839.html

Been using Vallejo for about 10+yrs, and have never had any problems.

Biggest thing with Vallejo, is prepare your plastic/resin properly. Wash it with a mild detergent to get rid of the mold release, and use a quality primer.

When thinning Vallejo, most people use water, however you should really be using Vallejo's thinner as where water will literally just "thin" the paint, and will reduce that in the paint that helps adhere it to plastic, where as thinning it with their own thinner not only gives you a longer drying time (as it also has some retarder in it), but will also add to the paint's adhering properties.

Depending on the color I am using, I usually thin Vallejo with about a 2 to 1 ratio, paint to thinner. So 2 drops of paint, 1 drop of thinner (give or take) and mix up with your brush.

I will admit that I haven't used the Revell Aqua colors, but then again I am in North America, and they aren't available on this side of the pond that I am aware of.

Wow, the Revell Aqua does look very forgiving if it leveled out like that after being slopped on so thickly on that F-4. I haven't had a chance to use them before because I haven't been able to find them anywhere in North America, as stated above.

Regarding the Vallejo paints, I experienced the "softer" side of the paint as well. The first time I used them they scratched and rubbed off of my model very easily. I found that they really need something good to grab onto such as a good primer or a good coat of paint underneath. I haven't had a problem since doing this. I use it straight from the bottle letting the water from my brush keep the paint wet while it is exposed to air. It levels very well and is easily handled without rubbing or scratching off. I find them especially useful for detail work. Just squirt out a little at a time and keep the bottle well shaken so that the pigments don't separate as this will get you in trouble.

thanks for the further advice about using paint...
Stil going to use Vallejo for the pale blue as its such as a lovely shade...lol
Yeah i thought in the reiew he had glooped that F4 rather thickly too...I dont use revell that thick and it looks even better than his effort...
I have stripped(yet again) the bf109 and going to give it a primer of revell light grey before using a combo of revell and vallejo.. the colours go well together....
Shame you cant get Revell in the states, i think you might like it:) Revells main problem is lack of colours 80 odd...Wish they had same range as Vallejo...lol

I think Vallejo are the best brush painting paints in the world, and I have never had the problems described. I've never had a problem getting Vallejo to adhere to clean, bare plastic. Here's a quote from the Vallejo website's FAQ's -
"Acrylics dry through the evaporation of their water content, and their drying time depends on the surface, the thickness of the coat of paint, the humidity in the work place as well as exterior weather conditions. In the case of Model Color and Game color, paint may feel dry to the touch very quickly, but maximum adherence to the ground and resistance to nicks and scratches may not be complete until 48 hours or more of drying time."
I've never had to wait that long, but I've never had Vallejo lift or scratch off on me.