Hi all,
Okay, my howitzer build is finished & I've nearly finished painting my figures.
Now I need to find out about a few things so I can progress:
1) I have one figure modelled as though he is placing a charge bag into the breach. What does the charge bag look like? What colour? Any pictures?
2) I have one guy holding the "ram staff" but what does the staff look like? I understand that it's about 6' tall but what does the end look like? Is it made from wood or metal? Was it painted & if so, what colour?
3) The guy on the phone has been modelled as if he is speaking into it but where does the phone wire go to? Is it like a radio or some other set? Please explain how this works. Pictures would be great, too!
4) Would a fire extinguisher be present or just the bucket & damp cloth?
Any information on the above questions or anything that I've missed, for that matter, would be gratefully appreciated.
Thanks all!
Joe.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M114A1 155mm (Vietnam) Ancillary Equipment?
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 08:36 PM UTC
redleg12
Joined: March 11, 2007
KitMaker: 872 posts
Armorama: 831 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 10:39 PM UTC
Joe
First you can go through this for general ideas
http://www.redleg2scale.com/RBMI%20Info/Artillery%20Modeling.pdf
As to your questions
1 - Charge bag you could use an off white, the end facing the breech or out would have a red circle on it. This is the end that faces the primer.
2 - You can go thru my photos of my 8 inch build here
http://www.redleg2scale.com/model%20gallery/M115.html
The ramming staff is multiple poles which screw together. Older WWII were wood with metal ends, by VN they were metal. They would be painted OD. The flat ramming plate would be a steel color.
3 - The telephone (TA-312) would be connected to the Fire Direction Center who would give the firing data to the weapon. Normally you would have the telephone along with a roll of wire (DR-8).
4 - Most separate loading weapons will have a bucket with some rifle bore cleaner and a ramming staff section with a bore brush on it to swab the bore every couple of rounds. Again look at my 8 inch build, you will see a photo of a cleaning setup.
There may be a fire extinguisher by the ammunition, but not always.
HTH...feel free to PM or email if needed
Rounds Complete!!
First you can go through this for general ideas
http://www.redleg2scale.com/RBMI%20Info/Artillery%20Modeling.pdf
As to your questions
1 - Charge bag you could use an off white, the end facing the breech or out would have a red circle on it. This is the end that faces the primer.
2 - You can go thru my photos of my 8 inch build here
http://www.redleg2scale.com/model%20gallery/M115.html
The ramming staff is multiple poles which screw together. Older WWII were wood with metal ends, by VN they were metal. They would be painted OD. The flat ramming plate would be a steel color.
3 - The telephone (TA-312) would be connected to the Fire Direction Center who would give the firing data to the weapon. Normally you would have the telephone along with a roll of wire (DR-8).
4 - Most separate loading weapons will have a bucket with some rifle bore cleaner and a ramming staff section with a bore brush on it to swab the bore every couple of rounds. Again look at my 8 inch build, you will see a photo of a cleaning setup.
There may be a fire extinguisher by the ammunition, but not always.
HTH...feel free to PM or email if needed
Rounds Complete!!
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, June 08, 2012 - 05:08 AM UTC
just to add to what Redleg posted, The goto powder charge in Vietnam was a charge seven white bag. Roughly 15.5cm in diameter, and will contain a make up of several smaller charges (I think a charge three was the lowest in a white bag). The length is just guess work as I have not had my hands on a charge seven in 44 years, but i'd kinda guess it to be about 40.0 cm.. There are also four small straps of cloth holding all this group of charges together. It can go a lot deeper than this, but as I said the charge seven was to goto charge in most cases. They also used a green bag powder that was colored green (a very light light green similar to sea foam green by maybe slightly darker. These charges are much smaller in diameter (maybe 10.0 cm). This powder was cut a lot, and would go all the way from charge one to charge five. Probably used it fifteen percent of the time.
The guy holding the rammer staff (we used wooden handled ones painted O.D. green) stays back out of the loader's way till he sees his right hand reach out for the staff. He then guides the end bell onto the base of the projo. I always simply pulled the rammer staff with my right hand as I was turning to the left (the guy with the staff gives the greatest effort). The section chief would hand me the powder (wasn't much good for anything else). While all this motion is going on the AG will have his eyes directly on the loader and nobody else. The gunner will either be looking in the scope or be looking directly at the AG. The bucket of water and the swab will be to the left of the breech and not too far from the AG. Often there will be a 5.56mm ammo box near the AG filled with primers (never under or near the breech). The swabs went south in a hurry in the combat zone, and most ended up being a sandbag wrapped around the old shaft (a very nast looking dark grey).
The rounds to be shot were usually placed right to the loader's right side where he could pick the up easilly. They were never handed over the trails due to weight alone. Powder was never placed on the ground in my unit, and we usually stacked it on an old ammo pallet. Loader usually sets the timed fuses, but if your shooting a lot the section chief might (if you can trust him). The rounds can either be standing, or laying flat on the ground. That's the loader's call.
The AG may or may not use the lanyard, but it will always be attacked to the firing lock. Most in my unit were about 18" to 24" long with an acorn shaped wooden knob on the end. I always used the lanyard, but Randy simply flipped the firing lock in a swift movement. In a night shoot the Gunner will have a standard military issue flashlight with a red lense cover. The field telephones we used were in a canvas coverd bag, and were placed near the left trail of the gun to stay out of the way of the others. (it's not all importent where you place him as long as he's out of the way and at the rear of the trails.)
Your liable to see guys shooting in their underware or fully clothed, but never a flak jacket between the trails! In I-Corps steel pots were SOP during a fire mission. You will almost never see bystanders watching, as they'll probably be put to work! In the dry season a howitzer kicks up a lot of dust, so you almost never see any small arms laying about.
Lastly, don't forget the jack stand!
gary
The guy holding the rammer staff (we used wooden handled ones painted O.D. green) stays back out of the loader's way till he sees his right hand reach out for the staff. He then guides the end bell onto the base of the projo. I always simply pulled the rammer staff with my right hand as I was turning to the left (the guy with the staff gives the greatest effort). The section chief would hand me the powder (wasn't much good for anything else). While all this motion is going on the AG will have his eyes directly on the loader and nobody else. The gunner will either be looking in the scope or be looking directly at the AG. The bucket of water and the swab will be to the left of the breech and not too far from the AG. Often there will be a 5.56mm ammo box near the AG filled with primers (never under or near the breech). The swabs went south in a hurry in the combat zone, and most ended up being a sandbag wrapped around the old shaft (a very nast looking dark grey).
The rounds to be shot were usually placed right to the loader's right side where he could pick the up easilly. They were never handed over the trails due to weight alone. Powder was never placed on the ground in my unit, and we usually stacked it on an old ammo pallet. Loader usually sets the timed fuses, but if your shooting a lot the section chief might (if you can trust him). The rounds can either be standing, or laying flat on the ground. That's the loader's call.
The AG may or may not use the lanyard, but it will always be attacked to the firing lock. Most in my unit were about 18" to 24" long with an acorn shaped wooden knob on the end. I always used the lanyard, but Randy simply flipped the firing lock in a swift movement. In a night shoot the Gunner will have a standard military issue flashlight with a red lense cover. The field telephones we used were in a canvas coverd bag, and were placed near the left trail of the gun to stay out of the way of the others. (it's not all importent where you place him as long as he's out of the way and at the rear of the trails.)
Your liable to see guys shooting in their underware or fully clothed, but never a flak jacket between the trails! In I-Corps steel pots were SOP during a fire mission. You will almost never see bystanders watching, as they'll probably be put to work! In the dry season a howitzer kicks up a lot of dust, so you almost never see any small arms laying about.
Lastly, don't forget the jack stand!
gary
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 02:27 AM UTC
Thankyou for your replies. They have really been helpful!
Mike, I'll be in touch by email on Friday when I get home from work as I cant access my email account from here!
There are a couple of questions I'd like to ask.
Gary, the info you give is quite sublime! A real wealth of information.
Thanks guys!
Joe.
Mike, I'll be in touch by email on Friday when I get home from work as I cant access my email account from here!
There are a couple of questions I'd like to ask.
Gary, the info you give is quite sublime! A real wealth of information.
Thanks guys!
Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 04:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thankyou for your replies. They have really been helpful!
Mike, I'll be in touch by email on Friday when I get home from work as I cant access my email account from here!
There are a couple of questions I'd like to ask.
Gary, the info you give is quite sublime! A real wealth of information.
Thanks guys!
I tried to explain in painfull detail what was going on in the parapit during a fire mission. The guy loading the round and the AG are key here. The loader sets up the position of the rounds and powder to his own needs and saftey. After a couple hundred rounds down range the Gunner, AG, and loader just become a well oiled machine. Not a single word is said between them, and only the telephone man says anything.
One thing you need to keep in mind with a dio is that from very early 1968 onwards most all shooting was afterdark, and a daytime mission was almost uncommon. I'd do one shooting H&I's with the rounds comming off that M35 truck you built. Guys are kinda laid back doing this, and you might see most anything.
I'm putting the pieces together for a three gun dio with M102's and three 81mm mortars. Still need one more howitzer and about ten pounds of art clay
gary
Joe.
thathaway3
Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 1,610 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 06:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
1 - Charge bag you could use an off white, the end facing the breech or out would have a red circle on it. This is the end that faces the primer.
3 - The telephone (TA-312) would be connected to the Fire Direction Center who would give the firing data to the weapon. Normally you would have the telephone along with a roll of wire (DR-8).
Rounds Complete!!
The red circle at the end of the powder charge is the igniter pad, which has a faster burning powder. It needs to be at the breech end and is what the primer ignites first when it fires. In our unit's peacetime training, the loader, ususally cannoneer #1, would always call out "Charge (whatever number), (whatever color White or Green) bag. I see red," (to indicated that he'd placed the charge in correctly), and then, lifting the breech handle, "Breech closed." I suspect that would quickly have gone by the wayside in combat.
If you really wanted to get accurate with the TA-312, during that era each gun usually ran their wire and plugged into an MX-155/GT switching kit. This was a box maybe 5" wide x 8" high x 2" deep mounted on a rod about 1 foot off the ground or so. There were 10 phone jacks in two vertical rows, and if I remember correctly one L/R pair was slightly separated from the other 8. The kit was placed near battery center and every gun section would take their DR-8 reel, plug into their slot and run the wire back to the gun and plug in the phone. The 8 jacks were for 6 gun sections, the Fire Direction Center, and the Battery XO. Once plugged in, everybody could talk to everybody else (think partyline/conference call!) The separate pair of jacks was for a "hot gun" and the FDC to talk without anyone else on the line. You could show the MX-155 not too far from the gun with the section wire plugged in and the other wires leading off in other directions. The alternative to this hookup was to run a single wire from station to station with everyone splicing in, which was called a "hot-loop". Pretty primitive by today's standards, but functional and generally reliable.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 09:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
1 - Charge bag you could use an off white, the end facing the breech or out would have a red circle on it. This is the end that faces the primer.
3 - The telephone (TA-312) would be connected to the Fire Direction Center who would give the firing data to the weapon. Normally you would have the telephone along with a roll of wire (DR-8).
Rounds Complete!!
The red circle at the end of the powder charge is the igniter pad, which has a faster burning powder. It needs to be at the breech end and is what the primer ignites first when it fires. In our unit's peacetime training, the loader, ususally cannoneer #1, would always call out "Charge (whatever number), (whatever color White or Green) bag. I see red," (to indicated that he'd placed the charge in correctly), and then, lifting the breech handle, "Breech closed." I suspect that would quickly have gone by the wayside in combat.
If you really wanted to get accurate with the TA-312, during that era each gun usually ran their wire and plugged into an MX-155/GT switching kit. This was a box maybe 5" wide x 8" high x 2" deep mounted on a rod about 1 foot off the ground or so. There were 10 phone jacks in two vertical rows, and if I remember correctly one L/R pair was slightly separated from the other 8. The kit was placed near battery center and every gun section would take their DR-8 reel, plug into their slot and run the wire back to the gun and plug in the phone. The 8 jacks were for 6 gun sections, the Fire Direction Center, and the Battery XO. Once plugged in, everybody could talk to everybody else (think partyline/conference call!) The separate pair of jacks was for a "hot gun" and the FDC to talk without anyone else on the line. You could show the MX-155 not too far from the gun with the section wire plugged in and the other wires leading off in other directions. The alternative to this hookup was to run a single wire from station to station with everyone splicing in, which was called a "hot-loop". Pretty primitive by today's standards, but functional and generally reliable.
with most all units engaged in combat in my division anyway, you had three FDC's operating independently (Division, Batallion, and Battery). Each would figure the same exact fire mission, and literally compair notes. There was also a fourth sour with some unites (we had one), and that was a computer about the size of a small washing machine!! I'm sure the others had them as well, but was never inside the other FDC's. The fire mission was worked out with a slide rule and the computer at the sametime. If numbers were the same, then the mission data would be forwarded (azmuth was already handed down about three minutes prior). This data is sent directly to the Chief of Smoke's Palace (just another bunker), and all contact with the howitzers went thru him. He's actually the guy that gives the command to fire when it's time. He's also the guy with the final say in calling a piece out, and nobody will challange him on that. All howitzer sections are hard wired directly to his switch board, and they never really have direct contact with the FDC.
In most crews the loader is also the guy who will finally cut the powder charges, unless he's got a bunch of time fuses to set. In that case it is usually the section chief or the guy responable for the powder bunker. When you get into two and three round zone sweeps you have a lot of rounds and powder to take care of, so everybody's gotta pitch in, but the loader will still set every fuse unless he can't for some odd reason. A contact fir mission is slightly different, but not by much. You have a special lot of projos and powder that will be called out and registered to. The ramming of the round is done with two sets of arms exactly the same everytime (your shoot very close to friendlies). Often on a contact mission we would add another warm body between the trails to free up the loader. Also I never saw a single loading tray in use during my tenure (any unit), and I don't think we even knew where ours was at!
gary
thathaway3
Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 1,610 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 03:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There was also a fourth sour with some unites (we had one), and that was a computer about the size of a small washing machine!! I'm sure the others had them as well, but was never inside the other FDC's. The fire mission was worked out with a slide rule and the computer at the sametime. If numbers were the same, then the mission data would be forwarded (azmuth was already handed down about three minutes prior).
Ah,yes! That would be the Field Artillery Digital Automatic Computer (FADAC) affectionally nicknamed "Freddie". It was primitive, but at least it was huge and slow and required only a honking 3KW generator to run it!! You have about 10 times as much computing power in your smart phone as that thing had!
And as you said, any chart operator was WAY faster with an RDP (Range/Deflection Protractor) in obtaining an azimuth and deflection to the target. The method the FADAC used to compute the trajectory and the computing power limits of the machine meant that it would take about 2/3 the ACTUAL time of flight of the projo, to calculate the firing data, at least for initial rounds. Once the rounds were within 200 meters of the target, the Add/Drop Left/Right shifts were much faster and the FADAC could usually produce a solution faster than the chart operator and Chief Computer. I wonder if the museum at Ft. Sill still has an operating FADAC?
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 04:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThere was also a fourth sour with some unites (we had one), and that was a computer about the size of a small washing machine!! I'm sure the others had them as well, but was never inside the other FDC's. The fire mission was worked out with a slide rule and the computer at the sametime. If numbers were the same, then the mission data would be forwarded (azmuth was already handed down about three minutes prior).
Ah,yes! That would be the Field Artillery Digital Automatic Computer (FADAC) affectionally nicknamed "Freddie". It was primitive, but at least it was huge and slow and required only a honking 3KW generator to run it!! You have about 10 times as much computing power in your smart phone as that thing had!
And as you said, any chart operator was WAY faster with an RDP (Range/Deflection Protractor) in obtaining an azimuth and deflection to the target. The method the FADAC used to compute the trajectory and the computing power limits of the machine meant that it would take about 2/3 the ACTUAL time of flight of the projo, to calculate the firing data, at least for initial rounds. Once the rounds were within 200 meters of the target, the Add/Drop Left/Right shifts were much faster and the FADAC could usually produce a solution faster than the chart operator and Chief Computer. I wonder if the museum at Ft. Sill still has an operating FADAC?
I spent a ghastly four weeks in FDC, and just hated it! Place was clean and the job was easy, but over half of the guys were in love with themselves. Had no clue as to what was going on outside, and didn't seem to care. I was the guy that ran the large map table with the protractor on it to plot the axmuth and line of sight clearence (mountains and hills). My job took about 45 seconds, and the rest was standing around waiting. We had a kid that simply sat in a chair and calculated the solution with his slide rule while another group did the samething on the PC and their own slide rules. He was always way faster than the others, and never saw him make an error. But I did see him catch an error a couple times with the other guys, and several with the Batallion FDC and even Division once or twice. Nobody ever argued with him (as was a math prof at Columbia University before he was drafted). How he ever ended up in that place is still kind of amazing to this day.
There were two LT's in there, and one was later relieved (he was OK, and it was political), and the other was in love with himself. (he should have been rotated out the the guns to learn what life was really like). Another guy was well placed socially back in the states and decided oneday that he wanted to become an artillary officer! He wrote a letter to his Uncle who happened to be the Senator from Mississippi (I saw the letter), and six weeks later he gets a commission! Now he was good at his job, and probably would have made a fine artillary officer, but he lost the respect he once had with his methods. The second first sargent broke that group up pretty quickly after he took over.
There was a grand total of three people residing in the Chief of Smoke's bunker. A LT, and two others. One was the Chief of Smoke (he was an E-7) and the other guy was a Spec 4. The Spec 4 had a skin problem and should never have shipped out from the states. The LT drank Jonnie Walker Black, and bought it by the case. We constantly swapped empty bottles for full ones out of his stash (he never caught on!!)
I'm telling you, that you could have done a sitcom on the happenings in my unit alone! Would have been just as good as MASH, and in many respects even funnier. I ought to write a book on the funny stuff, and throw in the stupid stuff to ice the cake.
gary
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 04:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Spec 4 had a skin problem and should never have shipped out from the states. The LT drank Jonnie Walker Black, and bought it by the case. gary
Seems to me the kid with the skin problem would be the least of your worries. The guy with the drinking problem should be the one left stateside.
As for the original question, run the telephone wire into ground. No matter where its ultimate destination is, you don't want to be tripping on it near the piece. The wires are buried - much easier than it sounds. You just make vertical slits into the ground with a shovel and shove the wire down into it. Normal movement covers the slit quickly so you don'y even see it.
thathaway3
Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 1,610 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 08:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I spent a ghastly four weeks in FDC, and just hated it! Place was clean and the job was easy, but over half of the guys were in love with themselves. Had no clue as to what was going on outside, and didn't seem to care.
Sort of the story of a lot of units during Vietnam. Too bad. I was the FDO in my battery for a year (in Germany) after doing a year as the FO first. Wanted to move up to Firing Battery XO next, but because I had a Civil Engineering degree, they made me HHB XO/Target Acq Plt Leader so they could get Battalion Survey to pass the ATT which they hadn't done in 3 years. (We did) I had a VERY good crew in the FDC and it was one of my best assignments in 30 years active & reserve.
And for the wire, at a fixed location like a Fire Base, absolutely, you'd bury the wire immediately after it leaves the gun position. While it probably won't protect it from being cut by a mortar hit, you won't trip over it at night either.
Plasticat
Joined: September 03, 2003
KitMaker: 448 posts
Armorama: 245 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 08:16 AM UTC
Wow, this is a great thread. I was a tracked vehicle mechanic in an M109A1 unit in the late 70's and this sure puts me in the "way back machine". I am wondering if the towed howitzers used an panoramic telescope and collimator like a 109 did? Anyway, I sure do appreciate the details you guys are sharing!
Leroy
Leroy
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 03:27 PM UTC
Indeed they do use the pan-tel and the collimator-same concept.
redleg12
Joined: March 11, 2007
KitMaker: 872 posts
Armorama: 831 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 10:36 PM UTC
Yep, both towed or SP they always have a pantel. Spent most of my time on 105s, M101A1 and M102 but the early days on the M107/M110. All used an infinity collimator.
On a towed weapon, there is not much difference from SP except everything you have hydraulics or power assist on an SP the towed is all manual!!
Rounds Complete!!
On a towed weapon, there is not much difference from SP except everything you have hydraulics or power assist on an SP the towed is all manual!!
Rounds Complete!!
windysean
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
Armorama: 735 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 12:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Wow, this is a great thread. ... Anyway, I sure do appreciate the details you guys are sharing!
Leroy
I totally agree! This is the stuff we look for on Armorama! Thanks, guys for sharing your experience.
-Sean H.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 04:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe Spec 4 had a skin problem and should never have shipped out from the states. The LT drank Jonnie Walker Black, and bought it by the case. gary
Seems to me the kid with the skin problem would be the least of your worries. The guy with the drinking problem should be the one left stateside.
As for the original question, run the telephone wire into ground. No matter where its ultimate destination is, you don't want to be tripping on it near the piece. The wires are buried - much easier than it sounds. You just make vertical slits into the ground with a shovel and shove the wire down into it. Normal movement covers the slit quickly so you don'y even see it.
he didn't have a drinking problem, and probably went thru four bottles a month himself. We did another three or so ourselves. I was the guy that used to get the case for him about every six or seven weeks, as I was the man with the unlimited ration card. As for competetency, he was up to the job, but the Chief Of Smoke was the boss in the end (as it should have been). He rotated out after six months like most officers did, and where he ended up later I don't know.
The kid with the skin problem was very alergic to most anykind of sun burn. They first sargent tried to get him sent home twice as it was unfair for him to be in that intense sun. The only time he left that bunker was to eat and goto the four holer in the daytime. After dark he'd drop by a couple times a week. (his shift on that switch board was virtually 24/7)
These two guys were at the very least of the problems in the field. I had a Captin the went over the deep end, and after about three weeks they hauled him out in a strait jacket. The one before him never set foot in the areas near the parapits, so he had no idea what was going on down there. The one before him virtually kept himself hid in a bunker, and didn't really even know the guys that were under him. The last guy was pretty good, and was a hand's on kinda guy. He won a Silver Star (should have been higher) for personally engaging NVA inside the wire and directing WP at 300 yards down range against them (about a hundred of them).
I could say similar things about a series of First Sargents and even a few E-7's that filtered thru. Good ones are always way over the top, and the bad ones often really stink. You always have folks in combat that are there to get their ticket's punched, and you gotta sort them out for recyceling. I could write a book about the good ones and two books about the bad ones!
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 05:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI spent a ghastly four weeks in FDC, and just hated it! Place was clean and the job was easy, but over half of the guys were in love with themselves. Had no clue as to what was going on outside, and didn't seem to care.
Sort of the story of a lot of units during Vietnam. Too bad. I was the FDO in my battery for a year (in Germany) after doing a year as the FO first. Wanted to move up to Firing Battery XO next, but because I had a Civil Engineering degree, they made me HHB XO/Target Acq Plt Leader so they could get Battalion Survey to pass the ATT which they hadn't done in 3 years. (We did) I had a VERY good crew in the FDC and it was one of my best assignments in 30 years active & reserve.
And for the wire, at a fixed location like a Fire Base, absolutely, you'd bury the wire immediately after it leaves the gun position. While it probably won't protect it from being cut by a mortar hit, you won't trip over it at night either.
we always buried the commo wire about six to eight inches under ground. The commo guys did it and they had a pattern they laid it so as to protect it. Never paid a lot of attention to that stuff.
My stint in FDC was not my idea. I had already sorta bonded with the guys outside, and felt completely out of place in there. Honestly, I'd have prefered to be a plain jane 11b10 rather than be in an arty unit, as I was just passing thru like 75% of the other guys were.
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 05:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yep, both towed or SP they always have a pantel. Spent most of my time on 105s, M101A1 and M102 but the early days on the M107/M110. All used an infinity collimator.
On a towed weapon, there is not much difference from SP except everything you have hydraulics or power assist on an SP the towed is all manual!!
Rounds Complete!!
You know I couldn't remember the scope on an M109 for the life of me! And as much as I shot the M107's down at Sill I still couldn't remember that one as well. I remember loading the crane and wresteling with a zone three charge that was almost as big as myself most of all. Most of all I just remember the blast!
gary
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 05:26 AM UTC
Hi, Guys!
Just wondering that apparently I am not the only one who gets flash backs from building a piece of artillery!
The answers are loaded with smoke and the smell of cordite comes out of my computer.
But to give a visual impression of the principle, please, have a look at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkyR4bgYeU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYt_ddPy77Y
For those who can not translate all replies into the good old memories maybe useful.
Nevertheless: to all who commented, thanks for bringing back the remembrance of many hours in the good old M109 and next to the M114
Just wondering that apparently I am not the only one who gets flash backs from building a piece of artillery!
The answers are loaded with smoke and the smell of cordite comes out of my computer.
But to give a visual impression of the principle, please, have a look at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkyR4bgYeU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYt_ddPy77Y
For those who can not translate all replies into the good old memories maybe useful.
Nevertheless: to all who commented, thanks for bringing back the remembrance of many hours in the good old M109 and next to the M114
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 01:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi, Guys!
Just wondering that apparently I am not the only one who gets flash backs from building a piece of artillery!
The answers are loaded with smoke and the smell of cordite comes out of my computer.
But to give a visual impression of the principle, please, have a look at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkyR4bgYeU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYt_ddPy77Y
For those who can not translate all replies into the good old memories maybe useful.
Nevertheless: to all who commented, thanks for bringing back the remembrance of many hours in the good old M109 and next to the M114
if you take a look at the videos, on the left you will see another arty video. Starts out with a 155 being brought via Skycrane, and later you see a heavy lift Chinook taking one out. Original Chinooks were good for about 12,000 pounds in hot weather, and the gun weighs 12,600 pounds. So the gun was stripped of a lot of stuff and put in a net that was brought in right behind it under a "slick". When the heavy lift verson came out you could take the complete gun to where ever you needed it in one piece (minus the firing lock). Usually another Chinook would be right behind the first one (or just ahead) with a couple hundred rounds and powder slung under it. Inside would be the crew with each man carrying an HE round fused up or powder. The AG always had one of his pants pockets full of primers. When the units moved they would have as many as 12 Chinooks and 6 slicks with another three or four gunships flying in circles above them. The advance party would already be on the ground (five or six guys), and it was a rare sight to have infantry waiting on you there. Guns are registered within a half hour if not quicker. They are usually facing in different direction till they get everything setup. Almost as soon as the first guns start to register the Chinooks start to return again with more ammo and powder, and the next flight after that is usually heavy timber to block the trails and start the parapits. Work is done 24/7 on the parapits. Once that's done, the filling and stacking of a million sandbags starts to begin. If your lucky, you might end up on an abandoned firebase that has parapits in place, but often it's just a weed patch. Really bad hills would often get the Seabees to bring out their littly bitty bulldozer to help level things out a bit. Probably 50% of the hill I moved to had parapits, and a lot required the dozer. Usually by nightfall on the first day an infantry platoon will make a face to face contact with you and leave behind a heavy weapons squad.(about 12 to 15 men). If you start taking in incomming right away ( you will within 48 hours)they will have the rest of the platoon move you way both by air and on foot. If it's raining, you can expect a long a chilly evening with your eyes as big as silver dollars. Sleep is rare for the first 48 hours, and the infantry guys hate it just as bad because they know at best they'll be mortared and maybe even rocketed. If it's real bad they fly out a couple 81mm mortars or better yet a four duce and an 81mm mortar. While this is going on you work off the Batallion FDC and sometimes the Division FDC till you get your setup. The first fours hours are pretty scarey due to all the uncertiany, but once everybody if registered and ready to at least shoot a little bit it begins to ease a bit. I was the lead man off the chopper in the advance party, and my first sargent was leaning into my backside as i stepped off the bird. Sometimes you surprised the neighbors and sometimes they surprised you. But after a couple landings it just becomes business as usual (NOT!)as that's the nature of the beast.
A good 155mm towed gun crew will put nine rounds in the air before the first one hits the ground (around 90 seconds depending on just how good they are). The first crew I was with would do it in about 75 seconds without really going overboard. The second group was a ninty secound crew without working up a sweat. In Vietnam we shot a lot of zone sweeps and it was just the way it was. You shoot nine targets in a box (three up and three down). Sometimes they will have you shoot the sweep a second time with aerial burst WP to make sure you made your point, and other times you'll just shoot the same targets twice or even three times with plain jane HE. The most I ever did was a six round zone sweep, and we had to rotate loaders. The first crew I was with held the U.S. Army and Joint Military hip shoot record at three minutes forty nine seconds (they still do hold it). I'd still like to know how they did it!
gary
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.