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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Thinning Model Master Acrylics
Petro
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Posted: Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 01:13 PM UTC
Quick Question.
What other type of solvents can i use to thin MM acryl paints? i have Tamiya X20a, MM enanmel AB thinner, Rubbing alcohol and all kinds of heavy cleaners. (acetone, DA, Oderless mineral spirits.
Thanks.
SgtRam
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Posted: Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 01:36 PM UTC
I always use either Testors Acrylic Airbrush thinner or Tamiya's Acrylic thinner for MM Acrylics

SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 10:46 AM UTC
I thin Tamiya and MM Acryl with $1 a gallon blue windshield washer fluid. It has all the same ingredients as Tamiya thinner and it works excellent for both paint brands.
vonHengest
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 11:10 AM UTC
I still need to try that....
Petro
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 12:33 PM UTC
Thanks for the tip Matt.
I ended up trying some Isopropyl alcohol. It worked
zontar
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 01:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I thin Tamiya and MM Acryl with $1 a gallon blue windshield washer fluid. It has all the same ingredients as Tamiya thinner and it works excellent for both paint brands.


Matt: What is your ratio for paint vs thinner?

Thanks, zon
retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 03:05 PM UTC
I've never found a reason to thin MM acrylics. When I do try to thin them for airbrushing, they come out too thin.
Petro
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 03:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've never found a reason to thin MM acrylics. When I do try to thin them for airbrushing, they come out too thin.

This was the first time i sprayed MM Acryl. I think you might be right.
I sprayed the MM enamel like 12 years ago, but i don't even remember what that was like. Except for the smell!
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 03:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the tip Matt.
I ended up trying some Isopropyl alcohol. It worked

Marc,
Isopropyl alcohol does work, and I used it back in the 80's when I first started shooting Tamiya. I found it worked for MM Acryl as well. However, alcohol evaporates very quickly, making the paint dry very rapidly. Sometimes the paint will dry in the air on the way to the model, causing pebbling - a sandpaper like surface. It is also hard to maintain a nice wet edge and the paint does not level on the model. You'll also have nozzle clogging problems too.
Windshield fluid contains isopropyl, glycol, detergent, and water, thinning the paint and keeping it fluid, and the detergent acts as a wetting agent, lowering the surface tension of the paint and allowing it to self level and keep the paint from beading. Simply by accident, it's got just the right proportions. The blue color doesn't tint the paint, not even white. Give it a try sometime, and of course, use what works best for you.
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 03:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I thin Tamiya and MM Acryl with $1 a gallon blue windshield washer fluid. It has all the same ingredients as Tamiya thinner and it works excellent for both paint brands.


Matt: What is your ratio for paint vs thinner?

Thanks, zon

Zon,

For Tamiya, I thin 50/50 paint/thinner.
For MM Acryl, it's 60/40 or 70/30 paint/thinner.
It also depends on the nozzle size of your airbrush, and if you're doing a basecoat or getting in close for pencil lines.
By the way, you have a really cool name.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 07:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Thanks for the tip Matt.
I ended up trying some Isopropyl alcohol. It worked

Marc,
Isopropyl alcohol does work, and I used it back in the 80's when I first started shooting Tamiya. I found it worked for MM Acryl as well. However, alcohol evaporates very quickly, making the paint dry very rapidly. Sometimes the paint will dry in the air on the way to the model, causing pebbling - a sandpaper like surface. It is also hard to maintain a nice wet edge and the paint does not level on the model. You'll also have nozzle clogging problems too.
Windshield fluid contains isopropyl, glycol, detergent, and water, thinning the paint and keeping it fluid, and the detergent acts as a wetting agent, lowering the surface tension of the paint and allowing it to self level and keep the paint from beading. Simply by accident, it's got just the right proportions. The blue color doesn't tint the paint, not even white. Give it a try sometime, and of course, use what works best for you.


I know I asked you this before, Matt, but I don't remember...

Do use any retarder/flow enhancer (Liquitex, etc) when thinning MM Acryl with the windshield washer fluid? If so, which one do you use exactly and in what amount? Been thinking about giving MM Acryl a try again for certain things so I was wondering.

Rob
ElCapitan
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 07:59 AM UTC
Like some of the others in the forum, I've used windex (glass cleaner) and rubbing alcohol, but the Testors acrylic paint thinner is the easiest and probably the best. It doesn't create seperation issues and flows nicely from the brush or airbrush.

Good luck.
garthj
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 09:18 AM UTC
Hi all,
Just to chime in here, the windshield washer fluid suggested in this thread works extremely well and I have used this with Tamiya paints for the past few years, with no problems.

Cheers,
Garth
SSGToms
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 01:59 PM UTC
Rob,

Yes, I use Liquitex Slo-Dri and Flow Aid with all my acrylic paints. With the Slo-Dri, you put a few drops into your airbrush mix. With the Flow Aid, you make a working solution and add it so it makes up about 10% of your airbrush mix.
You can adjust as needed.
Petro
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 03:58 PM UTC
Good info coming about here.
So Matt, what exactly is the purpose of flow aid?
I think i have slo dri figured out.

SSGToms
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 04:59 PM UTC
Flow Aid makes the paint slicker and easier to spray. Liquitex says, "Increases flow, surface penetration, and workability of thinned acrylic colors."
As you probably figured out, Slo-Dri is a retarder, lengthening the drying time of the paint, giving you more time to work with it, so you can keep a wet edge as you shoot and the paint can self level. It will also prevent pebbling and nozzle clogging and tip buildup.
You can get these at any craft or art store. These work in ALL acrylic paints.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 02:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Rob,

Yes, I use Liquitex Slo-Dri and Flow Aid with all my acrylic paints. With the Slo-Dri, you put a few drops into your airbrush mix. With the Flow Aid, you make a working solution and add it so it makes up about 10% of your airbrush mix.
You can adjust as needed.


Thanks, Matt. Have both of these so I'll be giving them a try. My biggest issue with MM Acryl is the clogging of the airbrush basically instantaneously. Can't get more than a couple of minutes of spraying before everything gets clogged. Hopefully I can get these to work okay,

Rob
Petro
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 03:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Rob,

Yes, I use Liquitex Slo-Dri and Flow Aid with all my acrylic paints. With the Slo-Dri, you put a few drops into your airbrush mix. With the Flow Aid, you make a working solution and add it so it makes up about 10% of your airbrush mix.
You can adjust as needed.


Thanks, Matt. Have both of these so I'll be giving them a try. My biggest issue with MM Acryl is the clogging of the airbrush basically instantaneously. Can't get more than a couple of minutes of spraying before everything gets clogged. Hopefully I can get these to work okay,

Rob

I was worried about those issues myself Rob. With the Isopropyl alcohol, which i think was 70 percent, i had no issues. I will try either windex or washer fluid next.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 06:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Rob,

Yes, I use Liquitex Slo-Dri and Flow Aid with all my acrylic paints. With the Slo-Dri, you put a few drops into your airbrush mix. With the Flow Aid, you make a working solution and add it so it makes up about 10% of your airbrush mix.
You can adjust as needed.


Thanks, Matt. Have both of these so I'll be giving them a try. My biggest issue with MM Acryl is the clogging of the airbrush basically instantaneously. Can't get more than a couple of minutes of spraying before everything gets clogged. Hopefully I can get these to work okay,

Rob

I was worried about those issues myself Rob. With the Isopropyl alcohol, which i think was 70 percent, i had no issues. I will try either windex or washer fluid next.


I've tried literally everything under the sun in terms of thinning products for MM Acryl and, with all of them, my airbrush clogged religiously in just a few minutes. The clogging got to be so bad that it took me more time to clean the airbrush than it would have if I had sprayed a whole kit. Following on Matt's advice early on, I did try the windshield fluid with great success. Again, for me, it wasn't the actual spraying or laying down of paint the real issue so much as it was the instant clogging of the a/b. Just to name a few of the products I used to thin MM Acryl, they are Acryl's own thinner, Tamiya thinner, 90% alcohol, Gunze thinner, Windex, water, you name it. Each time (with the exception of the Tamiya thinner) my brush was clogged within just a couple of minutes. For some reason, Tamiya thinner makes the spraying last longer but, unfortunately, the results were not all that satisfactory.

So, for me, if I just could get the a/b to stop clogging when using MM Acryl, I'd be using the line a lot more. I'll definitely be trying the retarder/flow enhancer Liquitex combo and see how I fair.

Rob
SSGToms
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 03:19 PM UTC
Don't thin with Windex. Windex actually destroys the pigment and carrier, which is why it's so good at stripping models and cleaning airbrushes. What you get is the dried cadaver of the paint, which will eventually flake off the model.
SSGToms
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 03:22 PM UTC
The best way to keep your airbrush tip from clogging is to keep a cup of airbrush cleaner with a Q-Tip in it when you are shooting. If the paint stops, gently stick the Q-Tip in the nozzle cup and spin a few times. This will clear the needle and nozzle and paint flow will resume. Keep on shootin'!
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