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Rare(ish) T-62 versions - some
zapper
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Posted: Friday, June 29, 2012 - 10:42 AM UTC
In a thread the other day I kept nagging about the model 1972 turrets on model 1962 hulls. Another thing in that thread made me go through some of the stuff I have saved and stumbled on yet another of these rare(ish) T-62's, this time a Chadian vehicle:


Anyway, as stated, that was not my main reason for going through the archive. Instead it was Jacques mentioning of another rare(ish?) T-62: "I also have pics of a m62 that was modded to add a AAMG...how many others were like this....??" (I also remember the thread you and Mr. Gary Denozo had on M-L a while back on the topic)

I remembered two of the photos that Mike P posted here some time ago.





Note the weld seam running along the MG 'cupola'. Jacques, is this what you refered to in your statement? Interestingly enough the Chadian 62 have the same weld seam:


So, the bottom line: what's the storry on that weld seam? Just one of the model 1972 batches or modded model 1962's? AFAIK the 'cupola' are usually casted togheter with the turret (no weld seam).

Fire away...

(Chadian photos from Glen Phelans facebook album:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.147588181974857.31737.100001710293823&type=3

Cheers,
/E
kruppw
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Posted: Friday, June 29, 2012 - 11:16 AM UTC
Erik I believe those turret have been modified with parts from a T-55. I do remember that the Iraqis added the loaders hatch from an older T-55 that had an AAMG mount installed over the old loaders hatch on the T-62. You can make out the older style loaders hatch on the second picture you posted. The area around the mount has me wondering if it came from a T-62 instead of A t-55, it's smooth and doesn't show the bolting pattern.

Here is an Iraqi T-62

zapper
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Posted: Friday, June 29, 2012 - 11:58 AM UTC
Howdy Christopher,

The hatch on the Chadian T-62 is AFAIK a standard model 1972 hatch (that it shared with late T-55's). My speculation is whether this can be a model 62 turret upgraded with a model 1972 mg 'cupola', or if it's just a standard model 1972 turret that for some reason were produced in two parts welded together instead of the more common single piece turret cast.

One in Afghanistan and one in Chad make it seem like more than just a one off field modd.

Cheers,
/E

kruppw
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Posted: Friday, June 29, 2012 - 12:16 PM UTC
Erik it might be some sort of field upgrade programe. I also notice the second picture has the rubberised side skirts more common with the M series upgrades. It might be possible the soviets had a team sent to the field to do upgarde to exsiting model 62's. It does bring up a good point that chad and astan both have the same tanks.

Cheers
Chris
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Friday, June 29, 2012 - 10:03 PM UTC
Interesting thread, thanks for sharing

I don't know. My guess is that it might be a sort of cannibalization. They have very low budgets and their tanks are very old. It must be hard to find spare parts for armies of the third world . To guarantee a longer life to their vehicles they might have done some "Frankestein" exemplars (as shown in Cristopher's pic)

My two cents anyway
tanknick22
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Posted: Friday, June 29, 2012 - 10:21 PM UTC
pm me and ill send you a pic of a t62 iseen at bagaram ab in afghanistan
Jacques
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Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 - 05:55 AM UTC
Erik - I hesitate to tackle non-warpac stuff because that REALLY opens a HUGE can of worms. There are so many local mods, field mods, and refurb-for-resale mods done, especially to T-54/55 tanks, that you could probably spend you entire life tracking them all down similar to what Sherm-o-holics do now.

I agree that there are indeed what look like modded m62 turrets with the AAMG coupola, and welded, but as to why...so many possabilities since they are in Africa....
kaleu
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Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 - 05:57 PM UTC
Hmm,I like the idea of building a Chad T-62. Any idea as to the colors? It looks like a brown and maybe dark green or black?
zapper
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 - 10:20 AM UTC
Howdy guys,
Thx everyone for your input. Found another welded cupola among Blast Models Kabul tank yard photos:




(Album here

I have to admit I'm still assume this to be either a upgraded m62 done in some (Soviet) tank plant or simply an m72 batch that had the cupolas welded on.

Why?
The job seem a bit to big for a Afghan/Chadian field mod. Cutting the cupola of an m'72 and welding it back onto a 1962. And the welding job looks pretty neat too (remember the not-so-neat looking job done on the Iraqi T-62s).

Three tanks with the same mod on two continents..?

Still, this is just my speculations and can of course be subject for debate.



Quoted Text

you could probably spend you entire life tracking them all down similar to what Sherm-o-holics do now

... and what a great life that would be!

@Jaques: you mentioned a photo of an m62 modded for an AAMG. Does that photo correspond with what can be seen in these photos?

@Erik: I think it's just dark green/brown. The light plays a little with the photos and gives the impression of some black fields.


Cheers,
/E
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 05:49 AM UTC
Yes, the photo I remarked about was a museum piece with similar welding.

I am thinking one of two thoughts:

1. This is a factory job of welded m72 turrets rather than cast. Maybe reworked m62 turrets in factory as the specs changed. Rather than make more m62's or just trash the turrets, they welded on the coupola's.

2. Since the welded turrets are showing up overseas, maybe they are a part of a upgrade program of refurbished m62 tanks. I could see a company rebuilding m62's and adding the welded coupola's on order. And the AAMG is a weapon well liked on tanks for its ability to "dispell" civic unrest vs. a main tank gun or a coaxial gun with limited engagement envelope.

If anyone uncovers any new information, please post it.
zapper
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Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 09:58 AM UTC
I'll soon get down from my soap box but just have to add a few more photos here. In another thread Mauro posted a link to a great album with lots of good photos (again thx Mauro!).

Here's just a quick summary of photos relevant for this thread.

Welded cupolas:
Afghanistan





m62 hulls with m72 turrets:

Iraq




Chechnya


(photos from http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/siba219/ )

Cheers,
/E
kruppw
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Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 10:50 AM UTC
Erik those two pics from Iraq are actually North Korean copies Chonma-ho. They come from the factory with m72 turrets on m62 hulls and as far as I'm aware, Russia never produced this type of variant.

Chris
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 07:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

m62 hulls with m72 turrets


Since turrets and hulls are compatible, it doesn't seem to me strange that on the field it swap them.
I don't know if T-62 tank is still produced (I guess not) If it weren't, that would be a simple way to keep the old vehicles efficient

cheers
kruppw
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 03:21 AM UTC
Mauro the only ones still producing the T-62 is the North Koreans, but in limited numbers. Mostly their type 4 with new reactive armor upgrades.

Cheers Chris

Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 04:13 AM UTC
Thanks Chris, that's what I thought.
So, field modifications ,canibalizations and odd mixed exemplars are likely to be quite diffused

cheers

kruppw
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 06:07 AM UTC
That's why I love Russian amor, so many variations floating around out there and not to mention some of the hill billy variants not on the books.

Cheers
zapper
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 09:31 AM UTC
Howdy Christopher, thx for pointing that out. Is there a dead give-away that tells the difference between T-62s and the NK copies?

Regarding the 62/72 "hybrids" I'm by no means trying to claim that these should be some regular production variant. I'm just interested in the fact that it seem possible to combine almost any sort of basic version hull/turret with any upgrade kit (or part of) and track configuration and still make a T-62 that actually exist/-ed. I'm also interested in getting a sense of how many that might have ended up like this. From having just one picture a couple of weeks ago I've now have a handful.

It doesn't seem too uncommon that when tanks goes through refurbishment turrets goes into one production line and hulls into another. On the other side hulls and turrets are simply mated toghter without any regard to which turret and which hull belonged togheter at the arrival at the plant. I'm thinking that this might be a plausible explanation for these hybrids.

In the end I guess we're all on the same page: when it comes to variations the possibilities seem endless...

Cheers.
/E
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 09:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy Christopher, thx for pointing that out. Is there a dead give-away that tells the difference between T-62s and the NK copies?

Regarding the 62/72 "hybrids" I'm by no means trying to claim that these should be some regular production variant. I'm just interested in the fact that it seem possible to combine almost any sort of basic version hull/turret with any upgrade kit (or part of) and track configuration and still make a T-62 that actually exist/-ed. I'm also interested in getting a sense of how many that might have ended up like this. From having just one picture a couple of weeks ago I've now have a handful.

It doesn't seem too uncommon that when tanks goes through refurbishment turrets goes into one production line and hulls into another. On the other side hulls and turrets are simply mated toghter without any regard to which turret and which hull belonged togheter at the arrival at the plant. I'm thinking that this might be a plausible explanation for these hybrids.

In the end I guess we're all on the same page: when it comes to variations the possibilities seem endless...

Cheers.
/E


we could buy some trumpeter mod 62 kit and some mod 72 , then we can mix them together

Joking aside, I agree. Real subjects are always more complicated than models in scale
kruppw
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2012 - 11:42 AM UTC
Erik there is a dead give awy to tell a NK copy that is easily overlooked by alot of people. You have to look at the front hull, NK copies do not have mounting points for mine clearing equipment on the upper and lower hull.

Here you can see a smooth hull devoid of the mounting boses


Also there is a minor detail on the loader's hatch, the pintle is more beefed up to hold up the weight of the KPVT gun and the back of the ring is different from the standard m72



Beyond that, it would look just like a normal russian version.

Cheers
Chris
zapper
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 09:22 AM UTC
Thought I should add this as it belongs to the topic of m62 hull/m72 turrets (it have already been posted in other threads):



http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/siba219/view/317894?page=6

Cheers,
/E
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