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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
IDF Super-duper Sherman
rfbaer
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Posted: Monday, July 02, 2012 - 01:29 AM UTC
This really should go under the heading of "I couldn't help myself" but I had to do it. Just for something to do, several years ago I slapped this together, out of nothing but spares box junk:

I then put it on the shelf. Well, a few weeks ago I finished this,

and promptly ran into a giant modeler's block. Absolutely frozen.
So just to keep my hands busy, I went back to the Sherman carictature I'd begun and shelved. After a few minutes of addled thought, the AEF (?) turret came off, the ESCI M1 tracks and sprocket followed them, and the Acad turret had the oversize Acad M1A1 120mm barrel stuck on it. The rest is a lot of Aves Apixie-sculpt and a number of forays into the various spares boxes in my cave. I'm having a blast.
My story, which I may or may not stick to: Having accumulated a number of surplus, tired M51s and not wanting to risk expensive Merkavas and Magachs in secondary actions, the IDF up-gunned and up-engined the old iron once again.
Cat V12s (sounds good), new sighting equipment for the home-grown 140mm demolition gun, a new trans cover, and whatever else I come up with in the next couple of weeks are part of t he program.
Pics are a touch fuzzy, sorry about that, but no clear shots yet due to the semi-secret nature of anything new from the IDF.
Enjoy. I am......



rfbaer
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 - 10:56 AM UTC
A bit of progress.......
Stowage on the hull sides, gun cradle, the beginning of a welded-up shell ejection port. Still having more fun than I should.



jimz66
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Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 03:16 AM UTC
Very cool and very interesting project... Well done....
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 04:17 AM UTC
]quote]new sighting equipment for the home-grown 140mm demolition gun [/quote]
If I may make a suggestion. The French 105 that went into the M51 had to have a massive muzzle brake to ensure that it could recoil within the small turret ring of the Sherman. The 140mm monster you show surely would not, no matter how big the brake was, and it throws off the ability of the viewer to "suspend disbelief" regarding the project.

You also call the gun a "demolition gun" which generally has no need for either long range or high velocity. So, to enhance the believability of the project, you could shorten the barrel significantly (say just a few feet outboard of teh fume extractor) and leave off the brake as unnecessary and your story regarding the genesis of the variant starts to really make sense and the model become much more believable. You end up with a viable infantry support tank on an old chassis.

Just a thought,

Paul
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 06:24 AM UTC
James, Paul, thanks for the comments.
Paul, lots to think about..... So, no muzzle brake at all? I thought that big honkin' thing gave it a neat look, but in the interest of feasability...I did use the old Acad M1A1 barrel, so it's not terribly long as is. Still too long?
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Friday, July 06, 2012 - 06:35 AM UTC
If your story is that the gun is a demolition gun, then is should be very short, not more than 2-4 feet (scale) longer than the fume extractor. And, with the low velocity, no need for any kind of brake.

Look at the 165mm demolition gun on the Churcill VII AVRE and the Centurion AVRE; short, stubby, thin tube wall and no brake.

These things just lob high explosive rounds at pillboxes & fortifications a couple hundred metres away, no more. No need for high velocities at all.

Paul
rfbaer
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Posted: Friday, July 06, 2012 - 08:11 AM UTC
Ah, yeah. I just thought the muzzle brake was neat. Have to ponder on it, thanks for the input.
bat-213
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Posted: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 05:54 PM UTC
cool build more pics please
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, July 12, 2012 - 08:28 AM UTC
Should have some more time to "work" on it tonight, but nothing done since my last pics. I did mnake it be the local HobbyTown and grab some plastic stock, so I think a humongous bustle rack is next.....
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 07:21 AM UTC
I've had a couple of sessions at the bench, makes me feel like the "mad toymaker", but some progress as well.....
Smoke grenade launchers, bustle rack, and a few other things have happened; pics are of what it looked like before I had a couple of hours on it last night.
I still can't make a decision on the muzzle brake, dang it.
Anyway, the pics:



More pics to come, thanks for looking, as always.
IrishGreek
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Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 08:19 AM UTC
Way Cool! And Fun is the reason we do this, right?

Have at it and keep having a blast?

BTW, on the rear bottom of the tank (in one picture) it almost looks like it has a parachute brake mounted. Is this thing air-deliverable too?!?!?
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 09:09 AM UTC
"Air transportable"? That might be stretchin' it a little.....
And yes, this IS supposed to be fun. Something like this is exactly what I'll do again, next time I find myself getting too hung up on details to actually do any modeling. Actually, I may do some more IDF "what ifs", like maybe an IDF M26, since this is so much dang fun.
I've got a Tiger B ready to start a "group build" on another forum, and I'll be refreshed enough to do things like use the right markings, tracks, etc.
AgentG
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Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 11:01 AM UTC
This is just way too cool.

G
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 11:56 AM UTC
BTW (and not to try to suck the fun out of this) but you do realise you have the new sight on the loader's side, right?

Paul
rfbaer
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 04:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

BTW (and not to try to suck the fun out of this) but you do realise you have the new sight on the loader's side, right?

Paul



Yep.....same theory/principal as a CITV, maybe? I seriously couldn't fit it into the other side, so I thought: "it's all electronic, right?". I may do something where the original gunner's sight is to support this.
More pics, as it is now. Commander's MG will probably go on a mount more similar the what the Israelis actually use, to give it more functionality.
I also added a tool box and oil tank to the rear deck, purely for clutter.




Thanks for looking, and I appreciate all the feedback.


retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 04:51 AM UTC
Man that thing looks awesome!!! Wish I had a spares box like you!
rfbaer
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 05:22 AM UTC
That made me laugh....
I do have a pretty good selection of stuff, plus there's a few cannibalized kits in the mix too. But that's the beauty of all those extra parts in kits these days, isn't it? Plus, I buy older kits at shows and such, just for parts. It's an affliction.
rfbaer
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 06:00 AM UTC
Okay..... with paint, first and probably only wash, and markings.
I compromised on the muzzle brake, sort of, by shortening the barrel and then putting the brake back on. I just can't get away from the hugeness of it. Still to do are the turret hatches and MGs, the rest of the detail painting, mantlet MG barrel,track weathering,then to decide if I want much, or any, stowage. I'll probably load it up, not sure.
Anyway, paint is Krylon gray automotive primer, followed by MM SAC tan, with a wash of MM acrylic burnt umber, then a good scrub with aclohol and a q-tip, leaving the wash in recessed and lower areas.
Thanks for looking!





tankmodeler
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 04:25 PM UTC
Russ,

Looks really cool. Kinda has a Tank Girl sort of look about it.

You might need to hit it with a flat coat as the photos make it look a bit too shiny, but it has really come out nice.

Paul
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 06:17 AM UTC
"Tank Girl"...... I like it. It's still got a gloss coat on it, waiting to get some dust and dirt on it before I hit it with flat.
Here's a couple more pics, just more detail painting and turret MGs mounted.



Thanks for peeking, as usual.
rfbaer
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Posted: Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 01:27 PM UTC
And dirt:





A couple of figgies and mayve soem stowage and I'm calling this one done.
Thanks for all the feedback throughout this build, it's all been very helpful. I may have to do another IDF what-if, since I had so much fun doing this one. Maybe a Pershing?
TankSGT
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Posted: Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 03:00 PM UTC
Very nice kind of looks like the love child of a Sherman and a Strumtiger. What ifs are a lot of fun. The idea of the Israeli Pershing just made me think of a Pershing with a 105 and an M48/60 back deck. I have a few extra Dragon M26s in the stash, hmmmm.

Tom
rfbaer
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Posted: Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 03:58 PM UTC
Do it! I've got a Tamiya Pershing and several M60s in the stash as well......
retiredyank
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Posted: Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 04:01 PM UTC
That's awesome! Why is the barrel shiny?
rfbaer
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Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 - 01:56 AM UTC
Thanks, Matt. I think the barrel has a bit of a sheen around the fume extractor since that's where I hold the turret ass'y when I'm working on it. Otherwise, it's all been sprayed with Testor's Dullcote.
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