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Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
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grant to lee
trainsdavid
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Wales, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 06:29 AM UTC
i have two accadamy grant kits. iwhish to change one to british lee bouht legend turret kit what else do ikneed to do, and can iuse grant decals thanks in advace. david martin
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 01:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I wish to change one to a British Lee. I bought the Legend turret kit. What else do I need to do, and can I use Grant decals.

If the Legends kit you have is the ALCO turret & stowage bins, then you can basically just switch the turrets and be good.

However, whether that is enough or not depends upon exactly which British Lee you want to depict. For the desert, it's probably enough (along with the right amount of crew stowage, of course) but for later, in the desert or in England, then a completely different arrangement of stowage boxes is necessary. You need to be quite specific about when this Lee served in the British Army and exactly which unit used it.

The kit needs some corrections, but it's up to you if you do them.

As for the decals, the serial number can't be used as is, of course and it might not bein teh same range at all. You'll have to find out what the range was for the British Lees. The unit markings can be used _if_ you can determine that Lees were used by that unit.

The red Jerboa is for UK 7th Armoured Div. and the "40" for the 1st armoured regiment in the Brigade during 1941 and part of 1942. For the first battles that the Grants/Lees appeared in, in May 27, the 1st regiment in the 22nd Armoured brigade was the 2nd Royal Gloucestershire Hussars. The question is whether there were any Lees in the unit at that time. I took a look at the 2RGH war diaries (online) and there is no mention of Lees at all and many of Grants. I heavily suspect that the unit was not using any Lees. This means you'll have to find another unit to represent. There are photos from the desert of Lees in the configuration of the kit. They're just not from the 2RGH.

Sorry, mate.

Paul
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 06:10 PM UTC
I'm no expert on the Lee but wouldn't he have to remove the periscope on the hull roof that was added to the grant?
Or was it added to the British Lees as well?
Rick
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 01:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm no expert on the Lee but wouldn't he have to remove the periscope on the hull roof that was added to the grant?
Or was it added to the British Lees as well?
Rick


Rick,

This would come under the heading of:

"The kit needs some corrections, but it's up to you if you do them."

:)

The periscopes were not fitted to all Grants or Lees in British service, but certainly to most.

The biggest problem with the Grant kit is that the bloody suspensions are 2mm too high. They really should be replaced with aftermarket units. The tool also suck, so they should go as well. The Grant turret shape is off and could stand replacing or at least reworking. The "Sunshade" rails are too high and should be slightly below the tops of the sand shields. There were frequently POL racks on the front fenders, but not always, so that's not a ding on the kit.

Oh, and for god's sake, don't use the long 75mm gun with the counterweight for anything. It is totally wrong and never existed.

But these are all in the realm of how accurate do you want to go?

Here's an ongoing Armorama Grant build to reference...

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/194558&page=1

HTH

Paul
trainsdavid
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Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2007
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 03:27 AM UTC
i had the fist kit whith wrong set of suspenton, second one was correct thenhad replacement set for first, also got rb barrels and is an alco terret david martin
exer
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Dublin, Ireland
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 03:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The biggest problem with the Grant kit is that the bloody suspensions are 2mm too high.


Depends when the kit was bought I think. Wasn't that corrected after it was brought to Academy's attention?
pseudorealityx
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The biggest problem with the Grant kit is that the bloody suspensions are 2mm too high.


Depends when the kit was bought I think. Wasn't that corrected after it was brought to Academy's attention?


Yes, it was eventually corrected. But unlike for instance, the Bronco Chaffee turret issue, the Aacademy Grant had the wrong suspension for a long time. The newer El Alamein boxing has the corrected suspension from what I've been able to figure out. The older boxing? No way to tell if it's got new or old.
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 04:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm no expert on the Lee but wouldn't he have to remove the periscope on the hull roof that was added to the grant?
Or was it added to the British Lees as well?
Rick


Rick,

This would come under the heading of:

"The kit needs some corrections, but it's up to you if you do them."

:)

The periscopes were not fitted to all Grants or Lees in British service, but certainly to most.

The biggest problem with the Grant kit is that the bloody suspensions are 2mm too high. They really should be replaced with aftermarket units. The tool also suck, so they should go as well. The Grant turret shape is off and could stand replacing or at least reworking. The "Sunshade" rails are too high and should be slightly below the tops of the sand shields. There were frequently POL racks on the front fenders, but not always, so that's not a ding on the kit.

Oh, and for god's sake, don't use the long 75mm gun with the counterweight for anything. It is totally wrong and never existed.

But these are all in the realm of how accurate do you want to go?

Here's an ongoing Armorama Grant build to reference...

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/194558&page=1

HTH

Paul


Thanks for linking my thread Paul. I'll be picking it back up probably late next week; just fyi.
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 04:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

i had the fist kit whith wrong set of suspenton, second one was correct thenhad replacement set for first, also got rb barrels and is an alco terret david martin


OK, good, you have the basis of the right suspensions for both kits.

Do you know which unit you want the Lee to belong to and where do you want it to be serving?

If your Grant is going to be in the desert, it might be kinda cool to put the Lee in Burma. No too many models around of that theatre, it would really stand out.

Or it could be in England training in 1943. I did one of thos erecently and the SCC2 Brown colour look interesting compared to the rest of the sea of green Allied tanks.

Paul
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 - 03:30 PM UTC
Sorry Paul but there is no problem with the Grant turret shape having carefully compared it to three surviving examples. The shape is near perfect but pretty smooth compared to the rough casting of the original (1 of the 3 had pretty smooth casting but all the "edges" were rounder than the sharp ones in the Grant kit (2 secs with a sander). Where there is a real problem is the gun does not sit correctly in the center of the rotor (vertically). This can be corrected by minor surgery or it is a great use for old Tamiya Lees and Grants gun and mantlet/rotor.

Likewise there is no problem with the hull shape which early reviewers condemed as have angles that were off. Also early reviewers criticised the rivet pattern which varied between manufacturers. A photo exists of the exact same rivet pattern and we have at least one (a Lee) with the same pattern in Aust.
The later kits had the corrected Suspension (The one with the Minart Crew).

This kit is not a masterpiece form the likes of DML, AFV or TASCA but it is quite workanlike and a lot more accurate than most reviewers would have you believe. I think quite a lot fell into the trap of not understanding there are diffrences between manufacturers of the real vehicle.

Cheers
Al
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 05:44 AM UTC
Al,

That's good to know about the turret. I've compared it to the Grant at Aberdeen and it doesn't quite match that, but I'll buy that these are manufacturing differences.

The hull certainly is the correct shape as you say.

Paul
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 10:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Al,

That's good to know about the turret. I've compared it to the Grant at Aberdeen and it doesn't quite match that, but I'll buy that these are manufacturing differences.

The hull certainly is the correct shape as you say.

Paul


It makes me wonder about all those people that bought the Legends "Corrected" hull. I've never measured one up but if it is different from the Academy glacis angle then it is is wrong. We were fortunate to get a set of official drawings which confirmed the Academy shape. At least one reviewer (TA) corrected his review but the damage had been done by all the other reviews. As for the corrected suspension it was pretty unforgiveable given the time difference between the Lee and Grant Releases.
Al
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 01:35 PM UTC
Having the resin ABM and Academy turrets in hand, there are certainly differences between the two, but they are minor, and I think with a little work, it would be almost impossible for even the craziest rivet counter to tell you which one was which once finished and on the tank.
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