Hi All

I have couple of questions about the Jagdpanzer IV and I wonder if there are any readers who can help me.

Some of the Jagdpanzer IVs had a rounded front armoured plate for the fighting compartment, I have read these are early development vehicles, is that the case?

Also a question on Zimmerit which I believe was applied to all fully armoured vehicles, from December 1943 to September 1944, would this have been used on any Jagdpanzer IVs with the rounded fronts?

Regards Bob.

Yes those were pre-series vehicles, I believe they were not armoured (built of regular steel). This is probably why you see photos of one used as a driver's training vehicle (I believe markings for this one are in the Dragon kit).

I have built one a very long time ago from the Accurate Armour conversion and found a blurry pic in a Japanese publication (Ground Power) that appeared not to have zimmerit, but given the quality of the pic it's not a certainty.

All other photos show Zimmerit on those pre-series AFVs and the surviving ex-Saumur vehicle now residing at Munster Panzermuseum also had traces of Zimmerit.

ATAK of Poland make a very nice Zimmerit set in 1/35 resin.

Cheers,

Christophe

Rob;

Hi!

OK... The rounded-front jagdpanzer IV was the so-called A-O version. Dragon did a 1/35 (Imperial) kit of this, which has been re-released in the CH orange "value" line. This was the pre-production test-bed with a cast-steel (non-hardened, not armor-grade) upper hull and a 43/L 7.5cm gun. Vomag built somewheres between 3 and 12 (depending on site and source you see) of these between OCT 1943 and DEC 1943. They were all issued over to the training centers and used as "schulefahrzeug". It is POSSIBLE that one or more were seconded very late in the war for use by units - the guns were of course operational, even if the armor was "soft steel".

The production runs - Vomag 48/L (first Vomag lower-profile plate hull with the older 7.5cm 48/L gun), Alkett 70/L (higher profile "interim" version plate-hull) and Vomag 70/L (the "most typical lower-profile, longer gun version) started into production from DEC 1943 and thru to April 1945. These were all, of course, fully-armored, hardened steel built with butted flat plates. The initial cast version was deemed too costly and difficult to build using a hardened cast hull, so...

The pre-production A-O were NOT factory zimmerited. One or more was later "shop-zimm'd" - this one shows up in a nice picture on several sites - see http://model-forum.ucoz.ru/_fr/48/3788424.jpg for a look at this on.

Please note that it is actually labelled "Schulerfahrzeug" on the side! Why the schulers zimm'd it is unknown - I'd guess that it may have been a training EX for shop folks who would be tasked to implement zimming of older vehicles in rear-area shops.

Presumably "all" 48/L, most 70/L (A), and some earlier 70/L (V) jagds were factory-zimm'd. - at those made up thru AUG 1944.

There is a "A-O" pre-production vehicle preserved at the Deutsches Panzermuseum. It is labelled as a "Schulerfahrzeug" or something like. It has no zimm now - it MAY have had some (heck, it could have been that one in the other photo!) at one time, back in it's early Saumur days? I'd say that if it had been zimm'd, that was a shop job. And why was it all taken off later? But for what is worth... See this one here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SdKfz162.jpg

As a word of caution, here: I've come across more than one pic of a 48/L Vomag which has been erroneously labelled as an A-O. IF it has the rounded carapace-front, it's A-O. IF it has a flat / sloped front plate, it's NOT. Look carefully! Seeing a pic of a zimm'd 48/L with a muzzle-brake labelled as an A-O might "fool" some and cause some confusion.

Did any of these few A-O actually get to fight? I've seen no compelling evidence but that means maybe I haven't looked hard enough! As a soft-steel test-bed, it would not have been "very effective" in battle... but, we know the Germans got pretty desperate towards the end, so... Best of my knowledge, "probably NO".

Just "FYI": I have the Dragon A-O. My plan is to go right ahead and camo it like the box art - as if it had been so painted by the schulers! And I'll add on the "Schulerfahrzeug" labels and plackards! Who knows - maybe also some zimm! Again, with a school label

Bob

Hi Christophe

Thanks for taking time to respond I appreciate it, you answers have confirmed my understanding although I did not know about the properties of the steel, so you have added to my understanding, thank very much.

Regards Bob.

Hi Bob

Thank you for responding and the answers. What do you think of the Dragon kit? I will be going to a show towards the end of September and if there is one on sale I might be tempted to buy one.

Regards Bob.

Bob;

It's a pretty nice kit. If you buy the cyberhobby re-lease (orange box), you'll get added Magic tracks and a set of figures - hard to beat that!

It's NOT like a Dragon "SmartKit" and certainly not a "SuperKit" - but it's pretty well done, and you get a metal barrel (but you use the styrene brake) and some PE and link tracks either way, so... And it's about the only 1/35 styrene game in town for this oddity. You will need to clean parts a bit. Add an RB barrel, some more PE details and nicer OVM, and it will look super!

PS: You'll probably find that it still gets moderately "good" prices on the eBay - strangely you can often buy the CH orange box for less than the original Dragon version! Go figure... add on Magic tracks and nice figs and pay less!

I'll build that Dragon, as I mentioned - it's a cool-looking variant and you seldom see one built on a show table. And actually, as it was used as a training vehicle but at least one did get zimm'd and etc., there are interesting possibilities!

IMHO, this one should be done up by CyberHobby as a new-tool white-box special. I think it would sell pretty well and certainly such odd topics like this are just what CH should be releasing in WB!

Bob

Hi Bob

Thanks, i'll start looking out for one.

Regards Bob.