AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Painting help
USMC2171
Alabama, United States
Joined: July 30, 2012
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Joined: July 30, 2012
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 03:45 AM UTC
I am just getting back into modeling, and I am starting with a USMC LAV-AT that I want to paint in the desert tan color. I am looking to make this as realistic as possible, and want to know what some of the better paint manufacturers are, acrylic paint or another kind, suggestions on primer color, as well as a good affordable airbrush. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 04:42 AM UTC
US Army Marines sand enamel by MM(Model Master) is the closest I've found. Alternatively, you may want to try Tamiya dark sand acryl.
USMC2171
Alabama, United States
Joined: July 30, 2012
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Joined: July 30, 2012
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 05:35 AM UTC
Great, that paint will work good for the overall color, but im also trying to find some information on techniques to make a very realistic looking model.
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 05:45 AM UTC
I can write a short book on modelling techniques, but that is what this entire site is about. You have to walk, before you can run.
BigSmitty
Minnesota, United States
Joined: October 01, 2008
KitMaker: 597 posts
Armorama: 439 posts
Joined: October 01, 2008
KitMaker: 597 posts
Armorama: 439 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 05:57 AM UTC
Jason,
The first question would be, "Do you prefer to paint in acrylics (less odor, faster drying, easier cleanup) or enamels (slow drying for blending, a bit more stinky, solvent based)?"
Depending on the type of paint you choose, you have a variety of companies to choose from (your first question). Model Master Acryl, Tamiya, Vallejo (Model Color and Model Air) are all high quality acrylic paints. Vallejo is my personal preference, but I don't stick to a single brand. I have some Tamiya and Model Master Acryl for certain projects. Additionally I keep a few enamels (Model Master specifically) to use in weathering after sealing the acrylic paint coat (enamels and acrylics are kind of like cats and dogs, only most of the time the dogs don't EAT the cats).
Modern vehicle primer colors aren't really as important as the vehicle primers of WWII, at least not to me. I would suggest a light gray primer color (as your base vehicle color is going to be pretty light). Some will say primer in black as it's going to allow some depth if you airbrush your LAV's base color. Ultimately your primer coat should be used to check for gaps or flaws in the model and to allow a good base for your LAV's paint job.
Airbrushes - again, a million brushes out there, with as many opinions. It also depends on your idea of "affordable" but for argument's sake I'll say around $100. Badger makes an incredibly solid airbrush in that price range, the Badger Patriot 105. Click the link to see the review here on Armorama. Personally, I have a Badger 100 (oldie but goodie), a Badger Stencil Aire (really good with inks), a Paasche H single action (for large areas of color like diorama bases, etc), an Iwata HP-CS (extremely good brush that sprays just about anything) and my newest acquisition, the Grex TG.2. After playing around with the Grex for a couple of days now, my Iwata's days are numbered.
I know this is a lot of information thrown at you, but if you're just returning from a break (I was out for almost 20 years) then you have a steep (but manageable) learning curve. I'm waiting on my LAV book from Osprey Publishing to get here, as I have an old Italeri LAV-25 with some resin tires I'd like to crack open once my WWI project is done.
The folks here on Armorama are pretty nice. We tend to share our toys and play nice with others, except for those propeller heads over on Aeroscale.
Feel free to PM me or anybody else if you have questions that you might not necessarily want to post on a forum; we welcome anything!
The first question would be, "Do you prefer to paint in acrylics (less odor, faster drying, easier cleanup) or enamels (slow drying for blending, a bit more stinky, solvent based)?"
Depending on the type of paint you choose, you have a variety of companies to choose from (your first question). Model Master Acryl, Tamiya, Vallejo (Model Color and Model Air) are all high quality acrylic paints. Vallejo is my personal preference, but I don't stick to a single brand. I have some Tamiya and Model Master Acryl for certain projects. Additionally I keep a few enamels (Model Master specifically) to use in weathering after sealing the acrylic paint coat (enamels and acrylics are kind of like cats and dogs, only most of the time the dogs don't EAT the cats).
Modern vehicle primer colors aren't really as important as the vehicle primers of WWII, at least not to me. I would suggest a light gray primer color (as your base vehicle color is going to be pretty light). Some will say primer in black as it's going to allow some depth if you airbrush your LAV's base color. Ultimately your primer coat should be used to check for gaps or flaws in the model and to allow a good base for your LAV's paint job.
Airbrushes - again, a million brushes out there, with as many opinions. It also depends on your idea of "affordable" but for argument's sake I'll say around $100. Badger makes an incredibly solid airbrush in that price range, the Badger Patriot 105. Click the link to see the review here on Armorama. Personally, I have a Badger 100 (oldie but goodie), a Badger Stencil Aire (really good with inks), a Paasche H single action (for large areas of color like diorama bases, etc), an Iwata HP-CS (extremely good brush that sprays just about anything) and my newest acquisition, the Grex TG.2. After playing around with the Grex for a couple of days now, my Iwata's days are numbered.
I know this is a lot of information thrown at you, but if you're just returning from a break (I was out for almost 20 years) then you have a steep (but manageable) learning curve. I'm waiting on my LAV book from Osprey Publishing to get here, as I have an old Italeri LAV-25 with some resin tires I'd like to crack open once my WWI project is done.
The folks here on Armorama are pretty nice. We tend to share our toys and play nice with others, except for those propeller heads over on Aeroscale.
Feel free to PM me or anybody else if you have questions that you might not necessarily want to post on a forum; we welcome anything!
ProfessorP
Minnesota, United States
Joined: February 20, 2007
KitMaker: 339 posts
Armorama: 325 posts
Joined: February 20, 2007
KitMaker: 339 posts
Armorama: 325 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 11:12 AM UTC
Jason, welcome aboard. As Matt said, this is a very friendly and helpful community. I've really enjoyed my experience here and am thankful for all the advice and encouragement I've received on my projects. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the advice or recommendations you will receive...take what you want and leave the rest. it's all a matter of personal preference.
That said, I picked up a Paasche Talon (double action, internal mix, gravity feed) after using the venerable Paasche Model H (single action, external mix, siphon feed) for years and they really are night and day in performance. I paid about $70 for my Talon through Amazon and it came with hose, extra needle and tip, as well as disassembly instructions. If I ever use the Model H again, it will be for spraying scenery or groundwork only. The Talon sprays so much nicer that I can't imagine subjecting another model to the old "H".
I'm also using an Iwata Smart Jet compressor. Picked that up a couple years ago and I think I paid about $225 for it but I really can't remember. It's quiet, compact and shuts off when you are not actually spraying. It has a pressure gauge and a bleed valve built into the moisture trap to allow you to lower spray pressures (which ironically, sort of defeats the auto shut-off feature). Works really nice for me and I don't need anything fancier.
As for paints, I made the conscious decision to spray only acrylics so that I don't have to worry about fumes and harsh cleaners. Although I'm still experimenting a bit, the Vallejo Model Air and Model Color (thinned with Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner) seem to be doing the job nicely once I got the correct pressure dialed in. I sprayed the Vallejo Acrylic Poly primer at 25psi and the base colors at 10-15psi depending on the shade (some spray better than others depending on pigment I assume). I found that a blob or two of Retarder mixed in the airbrush cup with the primer helps it spray a little nicer and prevents the tip clogging as frequently. Even so, a quick swab with a Q-tip soaked in Airbrush cleaner does the trick when it does clog and only slows you down for a couple seconds.
Vallejo sells their Acrylic Poly Primer in several colors so you might consider one that is close to your base coat. The alternative is to prime in black or prime in grey and use black as a "pre-shade" around the edges and in darkest areas and try the old panel fading technique.
I don't use Tamiya paints, but some folks swear by it and I can't argue with any of the results I've ever seen. Apparently the real trick is to thin it with alcohol or the Tamiya enamel thinner (oddly, NOT the acrylic thinner). Model Master Acryl also seems to be pretty popular but I don't know a thing about it so I'll leave comments on that to someone who uses it. As for other Acrylic manufacturers the only others I know of are Lifecolor and Gunze Sangyo. Again, others may wish to chime in on their success (or otherwise) with these brands and any others I have forgotten.
Bottom line, don't be afraid to ask questions, experiment on your own and above all, have fun!
Cheers.
That said, I picked up a Paasche Talon (double action, internal mix, gravity feed) after using the venerable Paasche Model H (single action, external mix, siphon feed) for years and they really are night and day in performance. I paid about $70 for my Talon through Amazon and it came with hose, extra needle and tip, as well as disassembly instructions. If I ever use the Model H again, it will be for spraying scenery or groundwork only. The Talon sprays so much nicer that I can't imagine subjecting another model to the old "H".
I'm also using an Iwata Smart Jet compressor. Picked that up a couple years ago and I think I paid about $225 for it but I really can't remember. It's quiet, compact and shuts off when you are not actually spraying. It has a pressure gauge and a bleed valve built into the moisture trap to allow you to lower spray pressures (which ironically, sort of defeats the auto shut-off feature). Works really nice for me and I don't need anything fancier.
As for paints, I made the conscious decision to spray only acrylics so that I don't have to worry about fumes and harsh cleaners. Although I'm still experimenting a bit, the Vallejo Model Air and Model Color (thinned with Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner) seem to be doing the job nicely once I got the correct pressure dialed in. I sprayed the Vallejo Acrylic Poly primer at 25psi and the base colors at 10-15psi depending on the shade (some spray better than others depending on pigment I assume). I found that a blob or two of Retarder mixed in the airbrush cup with the primer helps it spray a little nicer and prevents the tip clogging as frequently. Even so, a quick swab with a Q-tip soaked in Airbrush cleaner does the trick when it does clog and only slows you down for a couple seconds.
Vallejo sells their Acrylic Poly Primer in several colors so you might consider one that is close to your base coat. The alternative is to prime in black or prime in grey and use black as a "pre-shade" around the edges and in darkest areas and try the old panel fading technique.
I don't use Tamiya paints, but some folks swear by it and I can't argue with any of the results I've ever seen. Apparently the real trick is to thin it with alcohol or the Tamiya enamel thinner (oddly, NOT the acrylic thinner). Model Master Acryl also seems to be pretty popular but I don't know a thing about it so I'll leave comments on that to someone who uses it. As for other Acrylic manufacturers the only others I know of are Lifecolor and Gunze Sangyo. Again, others may wish to chime in on their success (or otherwise) with these brands and any others I have forgotten.
Bottom line, don't be afraid to ask questions, experiment on your own and above all, have fun!
Cheers.