I want to make an early (small-hatch) M4A3. I have Tank Workshop M4A3 conversions, MP Models M4/M4A3 conversions, Tamiya M4s and M4A3s, and Italeri M4A1s available. What seems to be the best combination and why?

Thanks,
KL

I did this conversion many years ago using the MP kit...Easy to do just switch the new hull for the Tamiya one ....well that and getting the fenders back on straight...Just remember there were no early M4A3's in Europe...They were all kept Stateside for training.. You'll have to find an early suspension from an Academy or AFV club kit ..
You can use the Turret from the Tamiya M-4 kit ...I used the old Verlinden one at the time but I'm sure there are better ones out there now.Have fun...

Rick

Kurt:

I'm kind of surprised you posted this question here -- normally you're the one answering questions on other armor forums ...

Nonetheless, my two cents on doing an early M4A3:

I'd use the MP Models hull and sell the Tank Workshop hull on eBay. Not that I have anything against the TW hull, but the MP kit is fine and is styrene, which is much easier to work with. You may need to modify the angle of the rear of the upper hull to make it proper for an M4A3 -- I don't have one handy to check, but I think the kit's hull rear angle may be more suitable for the M4.

The turret from the Tamiya M4 kit is perfect for this conversion.

For the lower hull, I think any of the kits you listed could be a donor. The Tamiya M4A3 kit has the proper rear end, of course. None of those kits have horizontal return arms on the bogie trucks, so you need replacements -- AFV Club makes a set, as do several AM makers. Formations makes a real nice set that uses parts from the Italeri/DML suspension.

Also on that lower hull, you'll want to get an early one-piece (aka, "round nose") final drive housing. Several of DML's Sherman kits, as well as Academy's M10 kits have good ones.

My two cents,

Hmmm, M4A3 (dry). It's been a while since I last saw that MP Models M4/M4A3 conversion set. I think it was the only way to get the early grill for the back deck (or am I wrong?).

I'm not familiar enough with the TWS items to know if they do the correct engine grill or not. If they do, it probably has much better quality.

I'd probably use either the MP conversion or TWS upper hull (whichever is better) and the Tamiya M4 early kit for the early turret and fittings. Why? Beacuse I'm cheap and not that much of a stickler for Sherman perfection.

Thanks for the info guys.

Some follow -up: The TW conversion is all resin and is made one or the other Tamiya kits. It's just grills, rear plate, and some other parts. For both it and the MP set (a complete plastic upper hull) you have to adjust the rear hull angle (21 degrees, 42 minutes off vertical for the M4A3. As far as I can tell the top edge was the same as an M4). Both sets seem to be of comparable accuracy but I haven't laid them side-by-side or compared them to the hull fabrication drawings. I guess I'll use the Tamiya M4 with the MP set - all styrene construction is certainly preferable. Not certain which suspension units to use - I've got ABM, AFV Club, and Academy. I know which would be easiest . . .

KL

I've seen photos of small hatch, early M4A3's in the ETO. Originally used stateside for training, it seems a number of them (in the 100's) were shipped over in early '45 (according to the caption that I recall).

Perhaps Dan Fong or Mike Canaday who frequent ML can lend a hand.

Here's a link to Mike Canaday's page of photos of the M4A3 75mm dry in action: http://mmcalc.tripod.com/Shermans/M4A3_dry.html

About the suspension -- if you want to stay styrene, both the AFV and the Academy look good to me. My personal pref is for the Academy bogies -- all they really need added are the four bolt holes opposite the return roller arms. I also believe that the AFV Club road wheels are a tad too wide -- not necessarily noticeable to the eye, but some track sets will not fit them. (Kurt, didn't you do some measurements of kit road wheels and compared them to actual wheel specs?)

BTW, I forgot my manners on my first post -- Welcome to Armorama!

Re: Bogie wheels

Better than measurements, I have the drawings. I don't recall making any exhaustive study of wheels but the AFV Club wheels are definitely too large in diameter, like 22 inches or so when they should be 20 even.

Thanks for the welcome.

KL

Oops, my bad. Again off Mike Canaday's site, a chart comparing bogie and wheel dimensions to those of the real thing (with some input from Kurt Laughlin): http://mmcalc.tripod.com/Shermans/VVS/bogey.html

So much info on the net, I forget where I learned things ...