G'day Fellas.
Yesterday I viewed Migs "Weathering with enamels" video and tried the dot fading method. After viewing the video once I thought I knew what I was doing, but really I was wrong. I applied the dot method onto my panther II and to me, it doesn't look all that great.
It seems too faded and I believe that I added way to much white with the dots... After looking at the video again it all became clear what I was doing wrong (live and learn I suppose).
Anyway, what do you think? Too faded and not all that attractive? If so, how can I work around this? Can you soften the fading somehow? In my opinion it doesn't look that great and i'm not really pleased at all. I'm considering stripping the paint and starting again...
Opinions would be great thanks.
Callum.
AFV Painting & Weathering
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Over faded?
Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 03:56 PM UTC
AFVFan
North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 04:30 PM UTC
Hi Callum, it's not so much over faded as it's too much of it is overfaded and therefore too flat looking. I'm not a paint expert, but the 2 possible solutions I can think of are: 1) a dark wash. This would kill a lot of the faded look and add some depth dimension so the model wouldn't look so flat. Or 2) go over some spots with very light coats of the original color building it up so that it gives you a gradation of the colors. Come to think of it, you might go with a combination of both.
Maybe some of the "master" painters on here can offer better solutions. Good luck with it.
Maybe some of the "master" painters on here can offer better solutions. Good luck with it.
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 05:12 PM UTC
I would recommend a dark filter using MM Sandgelb or Tamiya Dark Yellow, etc. A pin wash on top of this should make the details stand out.
tankglasgow
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, September 02, 2012 - 01:39 AM UTC
Yeah see the problem, I too am trying to get to grips with painting particularly using an airbrush. I think the fading looks about right but agree with first comment that maybe the fading is too uniform and should be apparent only on the middle areas of large panels. Perhaps a darker wash with very weakened darker colours in the recesses gradually building up the contrast would help. Definitely think you are on the right track and your paint job is sound, no need to strip and start again. Good luck, I've been there.
Posted: Sunday, September 02, 2012 - 03:00 AM UTC
I think the white has definetly faded things a little too far. But as the other guys have said- a dark pin wash should help alleviate the finish somewhat.
SdAufKla
South Carolina, United States
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Posted: Sunday, September 02, 2012 - 03:26 AM UTC
In general, I think it looks pretty good.
Usually, base colors need to be lightened quite a bit in my opinion to get a "scale" look, and I think your colors (after the white) don't look too bad.
I do agree with Bob, though, that it's all kind of flat and uniform looking.
A couple of problems that I've found using most suggested "oil dot" color modulation techniques are that:
1) The examples apply all of the various oil colors at once.
2) The examples apply the colors too uniformly spaced over the model.
The first, applying all of the colors at once just blends into a "muddy" colored wash over the entire model. The end result isn't so much modulating or varying the base colors in different places to get some differences in the tones and shades, but an overall change in color.
Why not just paint the model that color to start with? (The same applies, IMO, to the use of "filter" washes over the entire model. Why not just paint the model the final color to start with since the effect is applied uniformly over the entire model?)
To achieve an overall faded look, I think the airbrush with a pre- / post-shading technique and maybe even some airbrushed zenithal lighting effects adds more variety than "fading" using oils or overall filters.
The second problem with most "oil dot" examples, putting the oil dots too close together, also produces the same result, a uniform change in color, but for a slightly different reason.
FWIW, my suggestion when using the oil dot color modulation method is to apply each color separatly and keep the "dots" spaced apart more widely. Then when applying each subsequent color, put those in areas that haven't already received an oil color. It's ok to blend them into each other on their edges, but avoid blending them completely across each other.
Also, for camouflaged paint schemes, use some different oil colors on the different base coat colors. For instance, I use blues and yellows on cammo green spots (or overall green base coats), siennas and umbers on brown cammo colors, and ochres and yellows on dark yellow cammo colors. I use white on all cammo colors. Finally, you can use the darker oil colors to emphasize by darkening areas of the model that would be in shadows while fading the horizontal planes - achieving a "zenithal" lighting effect at the same time as modulating the colors.
The exact oil colors to use depends on the nature of the base coat colors, but I try to use the various different oil colors that could be blended to creat the underlying base coat (or cammo) color. For example, OD green can be blended with black and yellow ochre, so I use Paynes Gray and yellow ochre on OD base coats (in addition to other oil colors) to brighten and darken the shades and tones of the base OD.
You can also blend the oil dots vertically on the sides to achieve some fading and streaking to replicate some underlying weathing effects.
This achieves more variety in the color shade and tone changes which seems to me the entire object of the exercise - to add variety to large monochrome base coat areas.
Also, oil dot color modulation should be considered just one step in the overall finishing process. It's main purpose in my mind is to provide some variations in color tones and shades to break up the monotony of the finish, but it's an intermediate stage and not a "be all-end all."
Like others have suggested, add some general and pin washes, some chipping and wear, may be some dirt and rust streaking, followed by a "dust" glaze and finally some pigments for texture.
HTH,
Usually, base colors need to be lightened quite a bit in my opinion to get a "scale" look, and I think your colors (after the white) don't look too bad.
I do agree with Bob, though, that it's all kind of flat and uniform looking.
A couple of problems that I've found using most suggested "oil dot" color modulation techniques are that:
1) The examples apply all of the various oil colors at once.
2) The examples apply the colors too uniformly spaced over the model.
The first, applying all of the colors at once just blends into a "muddy" colored wash over the entire model. The end result isn't so much modulating or varying the base colors in different places to get some differences in the tones and shades, but an overall change in color.
Why not just paint the model that color to start with? (The same applies, IMO, to the use of "filter" washes over the entire model. Why not just paint the model the final color to start with since the effect is applied uniformly over the entire model?)
To achieve an overall faded look, I think the airbrush with a pre- / post-shading technique and maybe even some airbrushed zenithal lighting effects adds more variety than "fading" using oils or overall filters.
The second problem with most "oil dot" examples, putting the oil dots too close together, also produces the same result, a uniform change in color, but for a slightly different reason.
FWIW, my suggestion when using the oil dot color modulation method is to apply each color separatly and keep the "dots" spaced apart more widely. Then when applying each subsequent color, put those in areas that haven't already received an oil color. It's ok to blend them into each other on their edges, but avoid blending them completely across each other.
Also, for camouflaged paint schemes, use some different oil colors on the different base coat colors. For instance, I use blues and yellows on cammo green spots (or overall green base coats), siennas and umbers on brown cammo colors, and ochres and yellows on dark yellow cammo colors. I use white on all cammo colors. Finally, you can use the darker oil colors to emphasize by darkening areas of the model that would be in shadows while fading the horizontal planes - achieving a "zenithal" lighting effect at the same time as modulating the colors.
The exact oil colors to use depends on the nature of the base coat colors, but I try to use the various different oil colors that could be blended to creat the underlying base coat (or cammo) color. For example, OD green can be blended with black and yellow ochre, so I use Paynes Gray and yellow ochre on OD base coats (in addition to other oil colors) to brighten and darken the shades and tones of the base OD.
You can also blend the oil dots vertically on the sides to achieve some fading and streaking to replicate some underlying weathing effects.
This achieves more variety in the color shade and tone changes which seems to me the entire object of the exercise - to add variety to large monochrome base coat areas.
Also, oil dot color modulation should be considered just one step in the overall finishing process. It's main purpose in my mind is to provide some variations in color tones and shades to break up the monotony of the finish, but it's an intermediate stage and not a "be all-end all."
Like others have suggested, add some general and pin washes, some chipping and wear, may be some dirt and rust streaking, followed by a "dust" glaze and finally some pigments for texture.
HTH,
ninjrk
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, September 02, 2012 - 04:41 AM UTC
I've done that too, a lot of the fading techniques are tricky for me and I found that the people who wrote the articles I was following knew what they were doing (ah, the joys of ego getting in the way of my learning. . .) when they said use vibrant colors to compensate. What i did with some middling success is use the uniform fading as a base for a very dusty vehicle. Filters and washes to break up the uniformity and then an airbrushed and streaked enamel glaze via the airbrush to make it look like a dusted summer vehicle. Of course, i then proceeded to screw it up by mucking up the Humbrol enamel dust wash I'd seen done so well in the magazines. Live and learn I suppose. . .
Matt
Matt
Posted: Sunday, September 02, 2012 - 09:54 AM UTC
Thanks for all the great replys.
I will try this afternoon with the filters and pin washes. The model is far from finished. I have a lot more to do and I suppose that would somewhat make the fading not to bad.
I just posted it up in this stage of the weathering process as I thought I had stuffed the model from that one technique.
I'll post some images when the fitlers and pin washes are done and when Panther II is complete.
Thanks again,
Callum.
I will try this afternoon with the filters and pin washes. The model is far from finished. I have a lot more to do and I suppose that would somewhat make the fading not to bad.
I just posted it up in this stage of the weathering process as I thought I had stuffed the model from that one technique.
I'll post some images when the fitlers and pin washes are done and when Panther II is complete.
Thanks again,
Callum.
robw_uk
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: June 22, 2010
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Posted: Monday, September 03, 2012 - 06:12 AM UTC
Having just faded my pzii I like the dot method (I did mine slightly out of sequence I guess but for my first effort I like what I achieved).. one thing I did was fade only the horizontal surfaces. Gives a bit of variation to the side (mine was desert with more didst sun I guess). The other thing to continue is what other weathering will you do. Oil stains. Rust. Scuff marks, chips etc will break this all up. The only problem is you wont see the final effect until you get there (that's why I now think mine is just a little to heavily done).
Rouse713
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: February 03, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - 05:19 AM UTC
I think this looks GREAT!
After you paint the tools and add dark pin washes, I think this will be an amazing kit.
BTW, if you think it is too faded, what happens to your car when you drive through a dusty construction zone?
I worry a ton about my modelling, but this one is excellent. I think you can sleep well on it. I wouldn't repaint.
After you paint the tools and add dark pin washes, I think this will be an amazing kit.
BTW, if you think it is too faded, what happens to your car when you drive through a dusty construction zone?
I worry a ton about my modelling, but this one is excellent. I think you can sleep well on it. I wouldn't repaint.
Mig_Jimenez
La Rioja, Spain / Espaņa
Joined: October 29, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - 07:54 PM UTC
Hello callun!
Well, the color looks good to me, but I must agree with some other modellers who popsted before...a bit flat. And this is because you blended too much the small dots.
When you make a oil dots technqiue for fading, you must find a blance between to blend up the colors and leave them anought visible and randowm to create a good aspect.
But....like an alternative to the dot technique you can make some streaking grime effects. It will provide to your model that deep that the surface needs, and a "used" look.
Here I epxlain a bit how to do it. I think this is the next step in your model right now. You can try it in one side and show us again.
STREAKING GRIME
Good luck!
Well, the color looks good to me, but I must agree with some other modellers who popsted before...a bit flat. And this is because you blended too much the small dots.
When you make a oil dots technqiue for fading, you must find a blance between to blend up the colors and leave them anought visible and randowm to create a good aspect.
But....like an alternative to the dot technique you can make some streaking grime effects. It will provide to your model that deep that the surface needs, and a "used" look.
Here I epxlain a bit how to do it. I think this is the next step in your model right now. You can try it in one side and show us again.
STREAKING GRIME
Good luck!