I have recently read in one of my reference books that the M3 75mm GMC was used in north-west Europe. It did not dawn on me the significance or curiosity of this till later on. Now I must go back through my references to find "who" said it. Ughh!
Anyway, I'm building this vehicle for the TD GB. While I had originally planned to do this vehicle in Italy, I would much rather build an unusual one from NW Europe.
My question is, does anyone have any further info on this or was the author drinking at the time he wrote it? Were maybe the Free French using it? Any chance of the U.S. using it?
I do know the vehicle was considered obsolete by D-Day with the advent of better equipments.
Any thoughts or info would be greatly appreciated!
TIA
Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
M3 75mm GMC In NW Europe?
Kencelot
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2003 - 07:30 AM UTC
MGard
New York, United States
Joined: September 29, 2003
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Joined: September 29, 2003
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2003 - 07:46 AM UTC
There is a picture of an M3 75mm GMC disembarking from an LST in Squadron Signal's "D-Day to Berlin". Hope this helps.
Mike
Mike
Kencelot
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2003 - 07:57 AM UTC
Mike, any chance you could tell me who is using it? U.S., French?
MGard
New York, United States
Joined: September 29, 2003
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Joined: September 29, 2003
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2003 - 08:12 AM UTC
Unforunately I am at work right now, but I will check when I get home and post the details tomorrow.
Mike
Mike
M4Nut
California, United States
Joined: March 22, 2002
KitMaker: 148 posts
Armorama: 80 posts
Joined: March 22, 2002
KitMaker: 148 posts
Armorama: 80 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2003 - 02:54 PM UTC
Kencelot,
I'm just about done with the KMC conversion of this kit and from what I remember reading about the vehicle the US Army gave up using it when the Priest became available. My bet is it's French.
Eric
I'm just about done with the KMC conversion of this kit and from what I remember reading about the vehicle the US Army gave up using it when the Priest became available. My bet is it's French.
Eric
generalzod
United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2003 - 03:07 PM UTC
Kencelot,I think after N.Africa the only use of them was by the Marines in the pacific or the British In Italy mainly as SP artillery #:-) (++)
andy007
Wellington, New Zealand
Joined: May 01, 2002
KitMaker: 2,088 posts
Armorama: 1,257 posts
Joined: May 01, 2002
KitMaker: 2,088 posts
Armorama: 1,257 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2003 - 03:54 PM UTC
Hi ken,
From what I have read if I remeber right the french used it. I don't think it was a favourite of the US AT crews. Hope this helps
From what I have read if I remeber right the french used it. I don't think it was a favourite of the US AT crews. Hope this helps
jimbrae
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 12:05 AM UTC
I have seen a number of pics of the Free French force using them, that is a clear fact. I doubt that the U.S. were using them in NW Europe and I have seen nothing to indicate that Commonwealth troops had them either. An interesting question....Jim
Halfyank
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
Armorama: 1,245 posts
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
Armorama: 1,245 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 01:06 AM UTC
Here is what the Squadron/Signal book on the M3 Half-Track has to say about the M3 75mm GMC in action.
“Following North Africa the Allies invaded Sicily and Italy. Again the various versions of the half-track were committed to action, but for the special purpose types, such as the M3 75mm GMC, T30 and T19, their use was coming to an end. Newer armed vehicles, like the M10 Tank Destroyer, M7 Priest and M8 75mm HMC were replacing them and the remaining vehicles were relegated to training or given to the British or French. In particular the M3 75mm GMC saw extensive service with the British forces in Italy as self-propelled artillery, rather than a tank destroyer.”
The book has several pictures of 75mm GMCs but none in action.
Hope this helps.
“Following North Africa the Allies invaded Sicily and Italy. Again the various versions of the half-track were committed to action, but for the special purpose types, such as the M3 75mm GMC, T30 and T19, their use was coming to an end. Newer armed vehicles, like the M10 Tank Destroyer, M7 Priest and M8 75mm HMC were replacing them and the remaining vehicles were relegated to training or given to the British or French. In particular the M3 75mm GMC saw extensive service with the British forces in Italy as self-propelled artillery, rather than a tank destroyer.”
The book has several pictures of 75mm GMCs but none in action.
Hope this helps.
MGard
New York, United States
Joined: September 29, 2003
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Joined: September 29, 2003
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 01:18 AM UTC
Follow-up to my last post. I incorrectly said that the source of the picture was in D-Day to Berlin, I found the picture last night in WW2 Fact Files Self-Propelled Anti-tank and Anti-Aircraft Guns. The picture only had a caption that it was an M3A1 75mm GMC. Sorry for any confusion.
Mike
Mike
Kencelot
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 07:28 AM UTC
Steve Zaloga just answered my question. He states that the British were still using it into and from D-Day.
Now the next question, does anyone have a copy of the his (Steve Zaloga) Concord book on US halftracks? Yeah, yeah I know, I can't believe I don't have it either. There is supposed to be a picture of one in British service in there.
Now the next question, does anyone have a copy of the his (Steve Zaloga) Concord book on US halftracks? Yeah, yeah I know, I can't believe I don't have it either. There is supposed to be a picture of one in British service in there.
generalzod
United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 01:44 PM UTC
Kencelot,I have that book with me I will look at it tonite and post an answer for you in the am #:-) (++)
Kencelot
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 03:20 PM UTC
GZod, no need to trouble yourself ( I certainly appreciate it though), but my question was already answered.
"Two British armoured car regiments, the Royal Dragoons and 11th Hussars who had eight each in their Regimental HQ to provide close fire support to their Daimler armoured cars. The 11th Hussars still had theirs at the end of 1944." - Peter Brown
With the somewhat disappointing news of no U.S. troops using her in NW Europe, I decided to build it as one representative of the 601st TDB in Tunisia '43.
I just need to find further info on their markings...
"Two British armoured car regiments, the Royal Dragoons and 11th Hussars who had eight each in their Regimental HQ to provide close fire support to their Daimler armoured cars. The 11th Hussars still had theirs at the end of 1944." - Peter Brown
With the somewhat disappointing news of no U.S. troops using her in NW Europe, I decided to build it as one representative of the 601st TDB in Tunisia '43.
I just need to find further info on their markings...
AaronW
California, United States
Joined: August 03, 2003
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Joined: August 03, 2003
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 06:00 PM UTC
If you don't mind a little fantasy you could always do the M3 from Kelly's Heroes, perhaps the opening scene in the barn? It gives you an excuse to do it US colors in NW Europe and I'm guessing would be fairly unique.
generalzod
United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 03:55 AM UTC
Aaron,weren't the ones in Kelly's Heroes the 105mm HMC? Or at least the one Cowboy was in I did see a pic of the 105mm howitzer variant,T19,being used as fire support for the 7th Army in Operation Anvil That was the invasion of southern France in August of 1944
I am suprised that type was still around then #:-) (++)
I am suprised that type was still around then #:-) (++)
AaronW
California, United States
Joined: August 03, 2003
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Joined: August 03, 2003
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 02:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Aaron,weren't the ones in Kelly's Heroes the 105mm HMC? Or at least the one Cowboy was in I did see a pic of the 105mm howitzer variant,T19,being used as fire support for the 7th Army in Operation Anvil That was the invasion of southern France in August of 1944
I am suprised that type was still around then #:-) (++)
You know, I think your right. Now that I think about it I don't recall a gun shield. It's been awhile since I've seen it, I'll have to remedy that tommorow.
Kencelot
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 03:25 PM UTC
The halftracks - HMC's in Kelly's Heros are supposed to be T19's. I only say supposed to because the ones in the movie show the vehicle with the windscreen in place. These were removed and an armored shield was installed in it's place. One blast from that gun would have shattered that glass. In most cases the crews even removed the headlamps for the same reason.
Cool for the movie, nonetheless.
GZod, it certainly is odd to see the T19 still being used so late in the game. In fact, I remember seeing a picture of a T30 being used as fire support in Operation Dragoon!
Cool for the movie, nonetheless.
GZod, it certainly is odd to see the T19 still being used so late in the game. In fact, I remember seeing a picture of a T30 being used as fire support in Operation Dragoon!