_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
front turret M1A1
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 08:35 AM UTC
Yes it's me and my silly questions again...
After all my other questions, and the great answers I got from here, my model is starting to look like the real thing (although in MHO) but there's one #:-) more thing I'd like to know;
what are those square markings (or are they loose panels) on the front of the turret, left and right?



I know I can just paint them, but I was curious what they are and what they do...
Thanks AGAIN,

Jurgen
turrettoad13
Visit this Community
Mississippi, United States
Joined: February 26, 2003
KitMaker: 607 posts
Armorama: 490 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 08:42 AM UTC
Ahhh yes the much discussed IFF panel . These are to prevent blue on blue fire . The panels show up as bright spots in the thermal sights at long range to help identify the tank as a friendly . The ribbed panel on the side rack serves the same purpose . Hope this helps
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 08:47 AM UTC
A variant of the Combat Identification Panel. They are attached with large strips of velcro tape and provide the same thermal cold spot as the venetian panel style on the side of the vehicle. The panels are covered with a low emissivity thermal tape.
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 08:50 AM UTC
Also IFF panel?! But I reada piece on those things, and it said that the crew could not write (or do anything else) with the panel, cause that would disturb the reflecting... BUT I saw on other M1A1's that they painted destroyed tanks and stuff on it...
#:-) #:-)
well, okay if this is an IFF panel I know enough...(and is it removable?)
TreadHead
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 09:35 AM UTC
O.K., here's where I probably insert foot in mouth, and get stomped on by the membership....

Jurgen, are U talking about those squared-off 'panels' immediately left and right of the main gun and on the very front of the turret (kinda like bracketed rectangles)?
If so, aren't those some type of radiation panels guys??

......Tread's scrunching his shoulders up waiting for the coming 'riot act'............



Tread.
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 10:01 AM UTC
So guys... what are they?! #:-)
keenan
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 10:13 AM UTC
Rob, those panels look square. Do you know what the dimensions are? I have about 7 M1 variants on the shelf and I am going to need to cut out several panels.

Thanks in advance,

Shaun
kathoon
Visit this Community
Antwerpen, Belgium
Joined: January 14, 2003
KitMaker: 71 posts
Armorama: 55 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 10:21 AM UTC
I also am not sure, what they use those panels for. In the Raids issue "Victoire en Irak Opération Iraqi Freedom" is written, that if these panels comes in contact with some kind of chemichal agent, it changes colour.
I've seen these panels also on British vehicles, but these are white. Just like there IFF-louvres.
Epi
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
Armorama: 2,556 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 10:30 AM UTC
Shaun,
Here are the deminsions:
16 mm x 24mm
I just took these measurements off the Eduard set. The set number is #35594 M1A1 I.F.F./C.I.F. Panels (Iraq). It comes with the 2 panels on front and 3 CIP panels.
keenan
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 10:36 AM UTC
Thanks Pete! That almost has be be a record response time.

Thanks again,

Shaun
Epi
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
Armorama: 2,556 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 10:41 AM UTC
Im working on an M1A1 right know and I ha the set out.
No Problem. Oh, forgot, price for the set was $19.98, but it would be a lot cheaper to get about a .5mm thick sheet of Evergreen or Plastistruct and make a bunch of them.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 10:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also IFF panel?! ....well, okay if this is an IFF panel I know enough...(and is it removable?)
Yes, they are removeable, hence their attachment using velcro. Velcro is a hook and pile fastener found on sporting equipment and other clothing items. Some young children's shoes have velcro. The type we get comes in large rolls and is normally olive green.

They are not radiation panels. They are designed to make the forward surfaces of the vehicle appear cool in a gunner's sights, hopefully preventing the friendly vehicle from shooting this vehicle.

The flat CIPs do the same thing as the shuttered CIPs.
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 11:31 AM UTC
Okay, thanks a lot Generals! I'll go and cut some evergreen.... :-)
TreadHead
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 12:08 PM UTC
Hey Rob...is it the same case with the British Chally 2's? Cause, I think that's where I got the idea they were bio/radiation panels of some sort. Thought I read in some article on Op Telic that the Chally 2's were sporting white coloured panels of that ilk mounted in the same place.
If not......my bad synapse's at work again I guess

Tread.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 03:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Rob...is it the same case with the British Chally 2's? Cause, I think that's where I got the idea they were bio/radiation panels of some sort. Thought I read in some article on Op Telic that the Chally 2's were sporting white coloured panels of that ilk mounted in the same place.
If not......my bad synapse's at work again I guess

Tread.
I can't say since I tend not to pay too much attention to British armor. I know they started using our style of CIP panels for OIF. Most likely someone in the Chally article surmised incorrectly what they were for.

Besides, an Abrams tank (and most modern tanks) have their thickest armor on the front slopes of the turret. That'd be the least necessary spot for any type of radiation deflector. Any amount of radiation that could penetrate the depleted uranium, Chobam armor and steel in the front slopes would have already cooked the crew like a hotdog in a microwave.
Jaster
Visit this Community
Michigan, United States
Joined: January 15, 2002
KitMaker: 579 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 02:26 AM UTC
Is there a reason for the 2 different types of CIP Panels? Also are the flat panels made of a rigid or flexible material? The flat panel installed with Velcro would seem to be much simpler and less expensive.

Thanks in advance.
Vodnik
Visit this Community
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 02:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Is there a reason for the 2 different types of CIP Panels? Also are the flat panels made of a rigid or flexible material? The flat panel installed with Velcro would seem to be much simpler and less expensive.


My guess is that the forward facing surface of the panel has to be inclined at some angle. As the front armor of the tank is inclined itself, there is no need for venetian panel there - flat panels attached to the front slopes of the turret are enough. As the sides of the tank are vertical, the surface of the panel itself has to be inclined - thus venetian panels. Making one big inclined panel is not practical - the same goal was achieved with venetian style

Again - this is just my guess. I may be completely wrong here...

Rgds,
Pawel
TreadHead
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 10:41 AM UTC
Eeeck! Thx Rob for the reply. But it created a rather terrible mental image! I know you didn't mean it that way my friend.

As to the difference betwix the U.S. and British panels deployed, I'll have to check further.....

Although,all this does bring up the questions; Why does " low emmisivity thermal tape" require an 'angle' to operate. And further, why don' t they just coat the turret, or some speficif section of the turret, for example, with this particular 'special' tape?

Hey, I'm just an unlearned street beggar asking for 'alms'............

Tread.
 _GOTOTOP