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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
help painting rough
tenaglia
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Posted: Friday, October 12, 2012 - 08:37 AM UTC
I started to paint erografo recently and I do not understand why the colors tamiya the surface is rough to the touch.Hello
retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, October 12, 2012 - 09:57 AM UTC
It sounds like you have debris in your airbrush. You should be able to flush it out by running acetone through it.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Friday, October 12, 2012 - 10:48 AM UTC
Ciao Sergio, che diluente usi,da che distanza "spari" e a che pressione lavori? Se usi l'alcool o l'X20A e spruzzi da una certa distanza con una pressione bassa, è normale avere l'aspetto ruvido perchè l'alcool evapora molto in fretta, prima cioè che la vernice raggiuga il modello. Questo porta a quell'affetto di "polverina" sulle superfici. Si tratta di particelle di vernice già secca che coprono la plastica Ad alcuni non dispice, comunque se vuoi avere le superfici lisce e hai un aerografo con le guarnizioni in teflon, diluisci i Tamiya col Lacquer thinner (Tappo giallo). Non dar retta a chi ti dice che non si puo' fare. Si puo' fare e ti dà anche una finitura migliore. Se no devi o ridurre la distanza o alzare la pressione
PS se il tuo aerografo ha le guarnizioni in gomma non usare MAI l'acetone per pulirlo. L'acetone scioglie la gomma o la gonfia. Dopo un paio di volte l'aerografo le guarnizioni sono da buttare

Fammi sapere


In my opinion rough surfaces are due to the thinner to the distance and to the pressure...You use the alcohol or the X20A from a great distance with a low pressure don't you? Alcohol tend to evaporate fast so your paint is already dry when it reaches the model surfaces. That's the reason why you have that sort of "fine powder" on the model. Actually some guy don't mind but in my opinion, if you have a airbrush with seals made on teflon and you'd like to get better results and smoother surfaces, you should use the Tamiya lacquer thinner (yellow cap). Someone could tell you that you can't dilute acrilyc paints with a lacquer thinner, but that's no true, don't worry!
Otherwise, If don't want to change your thinner,you should reduce the distance or turn up the pressure

Ps If the seals of your AB are made on rubber, don't use the acetone to clean your tool. Acetone can damage the rubber

Let me know about

cheers
tenaglia
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Posted: Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 05:11 AM UTC
They use alcohol as a diluent and work with low pressure about 0.2 bar, you say that raising the pressure the problem could be solved? I'll try raising it and if this happens again I will use the Tamiya thinner thanks I'll let you know hello.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 05:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

They use alcohol as a diluent and work with low pressure about 0.2 bar, you say that raising the pressure the problem could be solved? I'll try raising it and if this happens again I will use the Tamiya thinner thanks I'll let you know hello.



Pink alcohol? Try using Tamiya thinner and yes, if you're working from a great distance you should raise the AB pressure
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 06:09 AM UTC
I've used acetone to clean four different airbrushes. Some had rubber bushings and washers, while others have the teflon ones. No problems with it damaging either. I've even given them an acetone bath without it damaging the seals. I've even run MEK through a couple of them, without any damage.
tenaglia
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 01:54 AM UTC
Hello Mauro alcohol use rose Monday buy the thinner yellow cap tamiya.Non understand what you mean by pressure AB sorry but I am a beginner hello and thank you
tenaglia
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 02:02 AM UTC
Thanks Matt for your advice, the gun is properly cleaned after each session I remove the paint in all its parts cleaning ritual hello
Easy_Co
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 02:46 AM UTC
I have found Tamiya paint can leave a gritty surface what I do is put a single drop of Tamiya smoke in the airbrush paint cup mix it with the paint you are spraying it dont change the colour but gives a nice smooth finish to your paint surface.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 08:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Mauro alcohol use rose Monday buy the thinner yellow cap tamiya. Non understand what you mean by pressure AB sorry but I am a beginner hello and thank you



You can use the yellow cap thinner, if your AB has the teflon seals. Otherwise you can use the thinner X20a (white cap)which is isopropyl alcohol with some retarder. In my opinion rough surfaces are due to the pink alcohol. I've read in other modeller's forums that many guys have had the same problem with it. You said that you work with a pressure of 0,2 bar. You should raise it to at least 0,5 bar in my opinion (However make some trials on a junk model to understand what could be the better one for your needs)


Quoted Text

I have found Tamiya paint can leave a gritty surface what I do is put a single drop of Tamiya smoke in the airbrush paint cup mix it with the paint you are spraying it dont change the colour but gives a nice smooth finish to your paint surface.



Yes,me too, I've read on some modeller's magazine that adding to your paint a drop of clear varnish Tamiya XF22 , can give you very smooth surfaces. That's a tip which also Mr Adam Wilder has given.


Quoted Text

I've used acetone to clean four different airbrushes. Some had rubber bushings and washers, while others have the teflon ones. No problems with it damaging either. I've even given them an acetone bath without it damaging the seals. I've even run MEK through a couple of them, without any damage.



Well, I don't know Matt. As far as I know, any thinner which can damage plastic, shouldn't be used to clean the airbrushes wich have rubber seals. The seals aren't melt by the thinner, they usually tend to swollen up, so you could have a problem not immediately but after several cleanings. Just my two cents anyway.

Sergio, (scusa se uso l'italiano è per capirsi al meglio) se usi il diluente col tappo giallo, accertati che l'aerografo abbia le guarnizioni in teflon, altrimenti il fatto di usare un diluente alla nitro (quello è il diluente tappo giallo tamiya) potrebbe rovinarti l'aerografo. Secondo me il ruvido viene dal fatto che hai usato l'alcool rosa, in alternativa al diluente col tappo giallo puoi usare il diluente col tappo bianco (X20A) che è alcol isopropilipo piu' un ritardante (il che migliora la finitura). Riguardo alla pressione, secondo me 0,2 è un po' bassa. Io al minimo lavoro a 0,5, al di sotto l'aerografo tende a sputacchiare piuttosto che a spruzzare. Alzala un po' e fai delle prove per vedere quale sia quella ottimale per i tuoi scopi.
Quello che ha detto John l'ho letto su alcune riviste ed è uno stratagemma che usa anche Adam Wilder. Aggiungi una goccia di trasparente lucido o di smoke Tamiya alla vernice che devi spruzzare e le superfici risulteranno piu' lisce e satinate, cioè già pronte per i lavaggi e per le decals. Io non ho mai provato, ma non è la prima volta che sento una cosa del genere

Fammi sapere se hai risolto, ciao buon lavoro
tenaglia
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 04:27 AM UTC
Today I did some tests with alcohol rose as the shop is closed. Pressure 0.5 bar and sprayed very close I must say that the situation is really improved. Tomorrow step to take the thinner white cap as the seal of my pen are teflon see the difference'll let you know grazie.Non still worry about the language I write in Italian with you but if we can make ourselves understood in English with a help of a translator awakening some language hello
tenaglia
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 04:35 AM UTC
John also definitely try your method I have everything to learn from you hello
retiredyank
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 07:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hello Mauro alcohol use rose Monday buy the thinner yellow cap tamiya. Non understand what you mean by pressure AB sorry but I am a beginner hello and thank you



You can use the yellow cap thinner, if your AB has the teflon seals. Otherwise you can use the thinner X20a (white cap)which is isopropyl alcohol with some retarder. In my opinion rough surfaces are due to the pink alcohol. I've read in other modeller's forums that many guys have had the same problem with it. You said that you work with a pressure of 0,2 bar. You should raise it to at least 0,5 bar in my opinion (However make some trials on a junk model to understand what could be the better one for your needs)


Quoted Text

I have found Tamiya paint can leave a gritty surface what I do is put a single drop of Tamiya smoke in the airbrush paint cup mix it with the paint you are spraying it dont change the colour but gives a nice smooth finish to your paint surface.



Yes,me too, I've read on some modeller's magazine that adding to your paint a drop of clear varnish Tamiya XF22 , can give you very smooth surfaces. That's a tip which also Mr Adam Wilder has given.


Quoted Text

I've used acetone to clean four different airbrushes. Some had rubber bushings and washers, while others have the teflon ones. No problems with it damaging either. I've even given them an acetone bath without it damaging the seals. I've even run MEK through a couple of them, without any damage.



Well, I don't know Matt. As far as I know, any thinner which can damage plastic, shouldn't be used to clean the airbrushes wich have rubber seals. The seals aren't melt by the thinner, they usually tend to swollen up, so you could have a problem not immediately but after several cleanings. Just my two cents anyway.

Sergio, (scusa se uso l'italiano è per capirsi al meglio) se usi il diluente col tappo giallo, accertati che l'aerografo abbia le guarnizioni in teflon, altrimenti il fatto di usare un diluente alla nitro (quello è il diluente tappo giallo tamiya) potrebbe rovinarti l'aerografo. Secondo me il ruvido viene dal fatto che hai usato l'alcool rosa, in alternativa al diluente col tappo giallo puoi usare il diluente col tappo bianco (X20A) che è alcol isopropilipo piu' un ritardante (il che migliora la finitura). Riguardo alla pressione, secondo me 0,2 è un po' bassa. Io al minimo lavoro a 0,5, al di sotto l'aerografo tende a sputacchiare piuttosto che a spruzzare. Alzala un po' e fai delle prove per vedere quale sia quella ottimale per i tuoi scopi.
Quello che ha detto John l'ho letto su alcune riviste ed è uno stratagemma che usa anche Adam Wilder. Aggiungi una goccia di trasparente lucido o di smoke Tamiya alla vernice che devi spruzzare e le superfici risulteranno piu' lisce e satinate, cioè già pronte per i lavaggi e per le decals. Io non ho mai provato, ma non è la prima volta che sento una cosa del genere

Fammi sapere se hai risolto, ciao buon lavoro


Most rubbers are now resistant to corrosives, such as acetone.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 08:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Today I did some tests with alcohol rose as the shop is closed. Pressure 0.5 bar and sprayed very close I must say that the situation is really improved. Tomorrow step to take the thinner white cap as the seal of my pen are teflon see the difference'll let you know grazie.Non still worry about the language I write in Italian with you but if we can make ourselves understood in English with a help of a translator awakening some language hello



Ok, It could mean that it was a matter of pressure. Actually I've read that lots of guys use pink alcohol as a thinner (especially with the gunze colors) and they said that didn't have any problems. Since you're looking for a cheap alternative to the original Tamiya thinner, have you ever tried the automotive blue screen wash?

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/172540&page=1



I've used a pair of times and I'd say that it workes quite well. As you know, you can find it in many supermarkets and is less cheap than the pink alcohol, but far less expensive than the Tamiya thinner

Otherwise you could try to buy the Isopropyl alcohol. Unfortunately it isn't so easy to find in Italy. There are few stores which are provided of it:

http://www.girellialcool.it/it/prodotti.html

http://www.antichitabelsito.it/alcool_isopropilico.htm


Quoted Text

Most rubbers are now resistant to corrosives, such as acetone.


Well, I'm sure it's true, but I don't feel trying with my spare Chinese AB...Are its seals made on resistant rubber? Who knows? I should try....But the first try could be also the last one...



SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 05:57 PM UTC
Hello Sergio and welcome to Armorama! The problem you were experiencing is called "pebbling" and it occurs when the paint partially dries in the air on the way to the surface of the model. The result can range from a gritty sandpaper surface to a fine dust on the dried paint.
You can fix this by airbrushing closer to the model. If you experience runs or spiderwebs, turn the air pressure down. If doing a basecoat, you can generally airbrush from 2 to 3 inches away. An airbrush is a fine tool, a rattle spray can is like a fire hose compared to it. The lower the air pressure, the closer you can get. You'll want to paint corners and details from an inch or less away.
Pure Isopropyl Alcohol makes the paint dry even faster since it evaporates so quickly. For Tamiya paints, I use the cheap blue auto windshield washer fluid. It contains isopropyl and glycol alcohol, water, and a detergent, which acts as a wetting agent and levels the paint.
Personally, I never shoot anything besides Vallejo or Medea airbrush cleaner, or Windex, through my airbrushes to clean them. I always follow this with a cup of distilled water shot through. Only use distilled water in your airbrush. Tap water has minerals and additives that will destroy the interior of your airbrush over time.
I personally would not ever shoot acetone through my airbrush as it will deteriorate any rubber part over time. And never, EVER shoot MEK through your airbrush for any reason whatsoever! Atomized MEK will give you nerve damage, brain damage, reproductive damage, or death. No kidding.
I hope this post has helped and you are getting better results. Airbrushing becomes relaxing and enjoyable once you learn the way.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 08:02 PM UTC
Thanks a million for the tips Matthew

Unfortunately Windex isn't sold in Italy as well as the Future wax )

Sergio you might already know, anyway, if you're get used to adopting acrilyc paints, an incredibly effective (and cheap) airbrush cleaner is the home degreaser "Marsiglia Chanteclaire" (red top)



You can use it also as a paint remover. You have just to sink your painted parts in a basin full of it and wait overnight (or more). The acrilyc paint will be ripped away easily as well as the primer coat. The only drawback is that it tends to detach the parts glued with CA adhesives.

Some other cheap airbrush cleaners which you can easily find in any Italian supermarket, are Vetril and Glassex. But they are far less effective than the Chanteclaire
tenaglia
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Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 07:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks a million for the tips Matthew

Unfortunately Windex isn't sold in Italy as well as the Future wax )

Sergio you might already know, anyway, if you're get used to adopting acrilyc paints, an incredibly effective (and cheap) airbrush cleaner is the home degreaser "Marsiglia Chanteclaire" (red top)



You can use it also as a paint remover. You have just to sink your painted parts in a basin full of it and wait overnight (or more). The acrilyc paint will be ripped away easily as well as the primer coat. The only drawback is that it tends to detach the parts glued with CA adhesives.

Some other cheap airbrush cleaners which you can easily find in any Italian supermarket, are Vetril and Glassex. But they are far less effective than the Chanteclaire

This evening I was able to buy the tamiya thinner white cap unfortunately the yellow was not available, as soon as I try it and let you know. As already mentioned, reducing the distance and increasing the pressure I had a great miglioramento.In reference to the colors Gunze diluted with alcohol rose does not give the same problem, for cleaning my gun I always use alcohol pink and then as the great Matthew spend all with distilled water. Thank you all of the advice received and as soon as I want to present my work hello
tenaglia
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Posted: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 09:19 AM UTC
The problem of roughness is resolved thanks to your advice, I Publicare some photos of my work but I can not figure out how to upload can you help? Hello
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