I can't quite tell from the photos (and without my Tamiya kit to hand) whether they have re-done the turret shape or just stuck the range finder onto the Tamiya turret, unfortunately I fear the latter.
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New T-72 Ural turret from SKP
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 09:35 PM UTC
I just spotted on PMMS a new 1/35 early T-72 Ural turret with coincidence range finder from SKP Models:
I can't quite tell from the photos (and without my Tamiya kit to hand) whether they have re-done the turret shape or just stuck the range finder onto the Tamiya turret, unfortunately I fear the latter.
I can't quite tell from the photos (and without my Tamiya kit to hand) whether they have re-done the turret shape or just stuck the range finder onto the Tamiya turret, unfortunately I fear the latter.
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
Armorama: 734 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 09:47 PM UTC
Seem like another Ural-ish turret that dosen't take note of the different range finder (?) housing on the left side of the turret. The opening is off-center, to the left. Later T-72 had the opening centered like on the Tamiya kit. From my memory there's other details on the housing that differs as well.
Again, fingers crossed that Miniarm will make a researched(!) try on this turret type...
Cheers,
/E
Again, fingers crossed that Miniarm will make a researched(!) try on this turret type...
Cheers,
/E
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 10:11 PM UTC
I thought that looked wrong Eric, thanks for sharing the picture! Unfortunately i think i'll pass up on this and stick with my Modelpoint turret, which so far seems to be the only accurate one out there.
In my opinion the shape on this new SKP turret is not correct either, its too rounded.
In my opinion the shape on this new SKP turret is not correct either, its too rounded.
brunocollin
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 98 posts
Armorama: 94 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 10:30 PM UTC
The SKP turret looks strange, really.
I'm glad to own the Modelpoint Ural turret.
@ Erik : where was taken the pic ? Libya ?
I'm glad to own the Modelpoint Ural turret.
@ Erik : where was taken the pic ? Libya ?
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 11:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The SKP turret looks strange, really.
I'm glad to own the Modelpoint Ural turret.
@ Erik : where was taken the pic ? Libya ?
I think it might be Syrian?
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
Armorama: 734 posts
Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 03:52 AM UTC
Correct. It's from Syria.
Cheers
/E
Cheers
/E
UGBEAR
Joined: December 01, 2011
KitMaker: 248 posts
Armorama: 247 posts
Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 09:46 AM UTC
looks nice, anymore pics? Is it metal barrel and how's the gun mantlet?
PatriotaModels
Joined: October 25, 2011
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 - 10:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The SKP turret looks strange, really.
I'm glad to own the Modelpoint Ural turret.
Have you forgotten my T-72 Ural turret, from NK-Patriota Models?
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/news/10015
and a built model from an ex East-Germany military officer:
http://www.military-models.de/t-72-oem-1-35-tamiya-patriota-models-und-zubehoer-t3082.html
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
Armorama: 734 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 06:49 AM UTC
Here's a better pic of how the left range finder housing should look (note bolted cover on the left side and the overall shape).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bensutherland/6343145247/in/set-72157628011537647
Full gallery here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bensutherland/sets/72157628011537647/with/6343894048/
Cheers,
/E
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bensutherland/6343145247/in/set-72157628011537647
Full gallery here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bensutherland/sets/72157628011537647/with/6343894048/
Cheers,
/E
IrishGreek
Joined: October 17, 2010
KitMaker: 627 posts
Armorama: 571 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 07:02 AM UTC
Man, it looks like those tanks in the first link ran into a slaughter house. They got crushed...
pdcoyote
Joined: August 23, 2012
KitMaker: 3 posts
Armorama: 3 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 09:02 AM UTC
I hate to say this but that is exactly what he did.The casting surfaces,details of the Tamiya T-72M1 turret and the NK are IDENTICAL! Only thing he did to his version was to slap a coincidence range finder on a Tamiya copy.
No two casted surfaces will ever be the same,yet the Tamiya and NK are exactly the same. Second,the NK gunner's range finder is the same as on later versions, however, the T-64A and the early Ural T-72 share the same coincidence and gunner's range-finders. Plus the mistakes on the Tamiya turret such as the near vertical slope of the turret cheeks,too short of turret overhang,and the bulge where the ejector port is which doesn't extend out far enough are also identical on the NK.Tamiya's represenation of the gunners panoramic scope has recessed cross-hatching instead of raised is also duplicated on the NK. I have Verlinden's T-72 turret and the panoramic scope's detail is raised, and they have extended the bulge where the ejector port is. They also included the lifting bolts on the bottom of the turret rear which are missing on the Tamiya and NK versions.
No two casted surfaces will ever be the same,yet the Tamiya and NK are exactly the same. Second,the NK gunner's range finder is the same as on later versions, however, the T-64A and the early Ural T-72 share the same coincidence and gunner's range-finders. Plus the mistakes on the Tamiya turret such as the near vertical slope of the turret cheeks,too short of turret overhang,and the bulge where the ejector port is which doesn't extend out far enough are also identical on the NK.Tamiya's represenation of the gunners panoramic scope has recessed cross-hatching instead of raised is also duplicated on the NK. I have Verlinden's T-72 turret and the panoramic scope's detail is raised, and they have extended the bulge where the ejector port is. They also included the lifting bolts on the bottom of the turret rear which are missing on the Tamiya and NK versions.
DerGeist
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 735 posts
Armorama: 707 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 11:33 AM UTC
Are you saying that the NK Ural and M turret are the same? I have both sitting next to me and I can tell you they are very different in appearance. Also, my M turret has the correct check profile and looks nothing like the Tamiya M1 turret. I'm confused as to how you came to these conclusions?
Erik
Erik
PatriotaModels
Joined: October 25, 2011
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 07:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I hate to say this but that is exactly what he did.The casting surfaces,details of the Tamiya T-72M1 turret and the NK are IDENTICAL! Only thing he did to his version was to slap a coincidence range finder on a Tamiya copy.
No two casted surfaces will ever be the same,yet the Tamiya and NK are exactly the same. Second,the NK gunner's range finder is the same as on later versions, however, the T-64A and the early Ural T-72 share the same coincidence and gunner's range-finders. Plus the mistakes on the Tamiya turret such as the near vertical slope of the turret cheeks,too short of turret overhang,and the bulge where the ejector port is which doesn't extend out far enough are also identical on the NK.Tamiya's represenation of the gunners panoramic scope has recessed cross-hatching instead of raised is also duplicated on the NK. I have Verlinden's T-72 turret and the panoramic scope's detail is raised, and they have extended the bulge where the ejector port is. They also included the lifting bolts on the bottom of the turret rear which are missing on the Tamiya and NK versions.
Hello Mr Cagle,
please allow me to say this: You are a simple liar !
I haven´t seen any of your model kits been built on this site, but you allow yourself to criticize other people. Let me say only one thing. I have sold more turret sets of the T-72 Ural, T-72M and M-84 than Verlinden, Blast Models, Kirin and Co. together, ever did or ever will be able to do. So your comment is just for laugh.
mpeplinski
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 487 posts
Armorama: 182 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 08:27 PM UTC
[/quote]Hello Mr Cagle,
please allow me to say this: You are a simple liar !
I haven´t seen any of your model kits been built on this site, but you allow yourself to criticize other people. Let me say only one thing. I have sold more turret sets of the T-72 Ural, T-72M and M-84 than Verlinden, Blast Models, Kirin and Co. together, ever did or ever will be able to do. So your comment is just for laugh.
[/quote]
Very businessman like,you take your product criticism very well.The man made an observation and voiced his opinion,he never called you a name.Also can you back some of your claims with numbers?proof?I have a Verlindens turret,and it looks quite nice. Good lord man,you'll break your arm backslapping yourself.Your products are nice,but you should invest more money and time in customer relations.
All the best
Mike
please allow me to say this: You are a simple liar !
I haven´t seen any of your model kits been built on this site, but you allow yourself to criticize other people. Let me say only one thing. I have sold more turret sets of the T-72 Ural, T-72M and M-84 than Verlinden, Blast Models, Kirin and Co. together, ever did or ever will be able to do. So your comment is just for laugh.
[/quote]Very businessman like,you take your product criticism very well.The man made an observation and voiced his opinion,he never called you a name.Also can you back some of your claims with numbers?proof?I have a Verlindens turret,and it looks quite nice. Good lord man,you'll break your arm backslapping yourself.Your products are nice,but you should invest more money and time in customer relations.
All the best
Mike
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
Armorama: 734 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 10:08 PM UTC
Took out my Tamiya turret and compared it with the picture above. Seem like the casting surface match up.
Now, there's just o n e thing...
The picture above is of the SKP turret, not the NK one! This thread is titled "T-72 Ural turret from SKP". So, are these 'allegations' aimed at SKP or at NK?
Cheers,
/E
Now, there's just o n e thing...
The picture above is of the SKP turret, not the NK one! This thread is titled "T-72 Ural turret from SKP". So, are these 'allegations' aimed at SKP or at NK?
Cheers,
/E
PatriotaModels
Joined: October 25, 2011
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 10:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Took out my Tamiya turret and compared it with the picture above. Seem like the casting surface match up.
Now, there's just o n e thing...
The picture above is of the SKP turret, not the NK one! This thread is titled "T-72 Ural turret from SKP". So, are these 'allegations' aimed at SKP or at NK?
Cheers,
/E
The pictures shown above are from the company SKP, not from the brand NK Patriota Models. These 'allegations' have to be aimed at SKP, because they are trying to make a copy of my products. But, as I said, some people allow to criticize other. Here's my T-72 Ural turret, built as a Syrian vehicle:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/202403&page=1
So Mr. Cagle, be honest and say this model builder that his model is a scrap? Dare you?
Oh, by the way, I don't need to make any additional advertisement or invest some time in customer relations. I have quit the business this February because I didn´t have enough time anymore to cast all the orders. I have never been counting bolts or smallest details on other model kits. But people who are jealous are doing this all the time on all forums. They come, log in, post their critics, don´t show their own work...
And finally to this discussion and my membership here, I was the guy who sent Trumpeter an E-Mail, some 4 years ago, with a complete detailed list and suggestion to produce the complete russian armor stuff from Cold War period.
todorovicandreas
Joined: May 01, 2007
KitMaker: 608 posts
Armorama: 593 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 10:41 AM UTC
I´m with Nenad on this one. Is it that hard to get the difference between SKP and NK? If the world still turns in the right direction, Mr Cagle, you should send an apology to Nenad for this confusion. I think his reaction was comprehensible, as those BIG allegations were directed at him..which was not correct.
My 2 cents, but such allegations can ruin a business.
Andreas
My 2 cents, but such allegations can ruin a business.
Andreas
vahleof
Joined: December 17, 2010
KitMaker: 189 posts
Armorama: 125 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 02:10 PM UTC
Yep, I second with Andreas
Mr. Nenad is a great guy to deal with
The Ural turret I bought from him was perfectly cast, no miscast or whatsoever and totally different from the Tamiya M turret
He even filled some tiny air bubbles on the underside of the turret for me!
And yes His products does not deserve comments like yours Mr Cagle
Sad that he left the business, a loss for all of us
Mr. Nenad is a great guy to deal with
The Ural turret I bought from him was perfectly cast, no miscast or whatsoever and totally different from the Tamiya M turret
He even filled some tiny air bubbles on the underside of the turret for me!
And yes His products does not deserve comments like yours Mr Cagle
Sad that he left the business, a loss for all of us
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 03:13 PM UTC
So, exactly what should I do here? Looks like it has been cleared up, but Nenad does not deserve the attack. Maybe there was a mistake, but Paul either needs to apologize for his mistake or I will have to report him and lock this thread.
I want civil discussion, and I want people to express concerns with products out there, good and bad, but civil is the word and if you screw up, fess up and apologize.
Paul?
I want civil discussion, and I want people to express concerns with products out there, good and bad, but civil is the word and if you screw up, fess up and apologize.
Paul?
pdcoyote
Joined: August 23, 2012
KitMaker: 3 posts
Armorama: 3 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 06:27 PM UTC
I deeply apolgize for the confusion. I did mean the SKP. For some reason the NK name stuck in my mind. However, I am concerned about the vicious attacks I recieved for an honest mistake!I wish Nenad and some of the others sought clarifiction before flying off the handle. Again, it was an HONEST mistake!!! I was not attacking you Nenad or trying to besmirch your name.
My criticism was aimed at what appeared to be a total disregard for Tamiya's intellectual property! I DID compare one of my Tamiya T-72M1 turrets with the SKP fare.
To address Erik's question. I've scoured over hundreds of photos.The major differences are the rangefinders. The early production T-72 appears to use the same coincidence and gunner's rangefinders as found on the T-64A. Actually, it looks like the intial T-72's used a slightly modified T-64A turret, if only externally. I've seen the NK Patriota early production T-72 turret and the cheeks are more accurate along with a much improved gun mantle vs. attempting to use a Tamiya OOB to represent earlier versions such as the G/M .
My criticism was aimed at what appeared to be a total disregard for Tamiya's intellectual property! I DID compare one of my Tamiya T-72M1 turrets with the SKP fare.
To address Erik's question. I've scoured over hundreds of photos.The major differences are the rangefinders. The early production T-72 appears to use the same coincidence and gunner's rangefinders as found on the T-64A. Actually, it looks like the intial T-72's used a slightly modified T-64A turret, if only externally. I've seen the NK Patriota early production T-72 turret and the cheeks are more accurate along with a much improved gun mantle vs. attempting to use a Tamiya OOB to represent earlier versions such as the G/M .
PatriotaModels
Joined: October 25, 2011
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 09:46 PM UTC
I accept the apology and I propose that we forget this unnecessary discussion.
It has been proved once again that Chinese copies and fakes are worthless. I have always kept my word. Best quality at a fair price without colorful packaging. A happy and satisfied modeler means more to me than the money I have earned.
So Paul, it's all back o.k.
I think we should delete the complete topic, because it doesn't make sense to advertise products that are obviously direct and bad copies.
All good,
Nenad
It has been proved once again that Chinese copies and fakes are worthless. I have always kept my word. Best quality at a fair price without colorful packaging. A happy and satisfied modeler means more to me than the money I have earned.
So Paul, it's all back o.k.
I think we should delete the complete topic, because it doesn't make sense to advertise products that are obviously direct and bad copies.
All good,
Nenad
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
Armorama: 734 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2013 - 12:34 AM UTC
Paul,
Not sure what question you're refering to (my questionmark after 'range finder?' perhaps). My point there is that the real left hand side range finder housing does not look like the one on the SKP turret, i.e. the left hand side range finder housing on Ural turret T-72s and that of later versions with LRF look somewhat similar but are not the same:
For the Ural version:
*the opening is off-centre
*there's an access panel with bolts on the left side *the top access lid is not centered on top of the housing.
Cheers,
/E
Not sure what question you're refering to (my questionmark after 'range finder?' perhaps). My point there is that the real left hand side range finder housing does not look like the one on the SKP turret, i.e. the left hand side range finder housing on Ural turret T-72s and that of later versions with LRF look somewhat similar but are not the same:
For the Ural version:
*the opening is off-centre
*there's an access panel with bolts on the left side *the top access lid is not centered on top of the housing.
Cheers,
/E
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 10:13 AM UTC
Paul - thanks for apologizing. As Moderator, I appreciate it. No harm, no foul.
Nenad - Thanks for accepting the apology. For now the thread should stay up to warn others if nothing else. Not the most succinct discussion, but it is there. I am not sure this is a copy of your part either...it is trying to be something like your product, but it is not a direct copy.
I have seen a lot of accusations fly over the internet, ultimately based on business and not hobby concerns, about copying that I KNOW were false. Direct copies of kit pieces are not out of bounds either...specifically plastic kits here, not resin conversions or updates. Many conversions are based on modified kit parts and require the purchase of a kit to complete. I only state this to help clarify, not start a debate.
All that said, I will not buy the SKP turret.
Nenad - Thanks for accepting the apology. For now the thread should stay up to warn others if nothing else. Not the most succinct discussion, but it is there. I am not sure this is a copy of your part either...it is trying to be something like your product, but it is not a direct copy.
I have seen a lot of accusations fly over the internet, ultimately based on business and not hobby concerns, about copying that I KNOW were false. Direct copies of kit pieces are not out of bounds either...specifically plastic kits here, not resin conversions or updates. Many conversions are based on modified kit parts and require the purchase of a kit to complete. I only state this to help clarify, not start a debate.
All that said, I will not buy the SKP turret.
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