Well i want to collect one of each German tank (then Tank Destroyers)Thus i have some questions for all of you. I was going to build all Tamiya kits but i have been told lately some other brands might be better! So can anyone help me figure out what would be the best models to keep an eye out for? Also does Tamiya's German Grey paint work for both earlylate war tanks since i hate painting brown and green camo. These are the kits i am looking at picking up in the next few months.
Panzer I
Panzer II
Panzer III
Panzer IV
Tiger I (late warZimmer Coating)
Tiger II (Porshe Turret)
Tiger II (Zimmer CoatingHenschel)
Hosted by Darren Baker
What are the best German Kits?
White_Tiger
Joined: October 28, 2012
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 03:32 AM UTC
pseudorealityx
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 03:37 AM UTC
What is YOUR version of a 'better' model?
ultimate detail?
ease of build?
cost?
Also, what is your skill level?
ultimate detail?
ease of build?
cost?
Also, what is your skill level?
White_Tiger
Joined: October 28, 2012
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 03:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What is YOUR version of a 'better' model?
ultimate detail?
ease of build?
cost?
Also, what is your skill level?
Well considering i have built resin Forge World titans with no instructions i think my skill level is pretty good (other then damn tracks!) I am looking for Detail really since i would prefer to have a nice looking model on my shelf over one that's super cheap.
AFVFan
Joined: May 17, 2012
KitMaker: 1,980 posts
Armorama: 1,571 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 05:45 AM UTC
Kurt, To be very simple about it, on the continent, the tanks were painted in the grey until early 1943 (Panzers I through IV-G, the Panther-D, and the early Tiger I).
After that, the Germans changed to the dunkelgelb base color. (PzkwIV-H and on, mid & late Tiger I, and all Tiger II)
Unless you're building a specific tank, you shouldn't have to worry about doing a camo pattern on any of them. There was also a dark green late in the war, but to keep it simple, paintwise, you don't need to worry about it.
In Africa, the first tanks sent were grey, but that pretty quickly was changed to the standard desert yellow color scheme.
As far as the actual kits go - and this is all personal opinion, I like Tamiya for fit and ease of building. Though there are accuracy and detail issues, especially on their older kits, they still build up to a nice looking model for the shelf. The Dragon/DML kits are better on the details, but seem to have more fitting issues. I'm not real fond of Trumpeter and Italeri and stay away from most of the eastern european kits (unless it something no one else makes - which, in your case, shouldn't be a problem).
I'm sure there are others on here who can, and will be, more specific.
After that, the Germans changed to the dunkelgelb base color. (PzkwIV-H and on, mid & late Tiger I, and all Tiger II)
Unless you're building a specific tank, you shouldn't have to worry about doing a camo pattern on any of them. There was also a dark green late in the war, but to keep it simple, paintwise, you don't need to worry about it.
In Africa, the first tanks sent were grey, but that pretty quickly was changed to the standard desert yellow color scheme.
As far as the actual kits go - and this is all personal opinion, I like Tamiya for fit and ease of building. Though there are accuracy and detail issues, especially on their older kits, they still build up to a nice looking model for the shelf. The Dragon/DML kits are better on the details, but seem to have more fitting issues. I'm not real fond of Trumpeter and Italeri and stay away from most of the eastern european kits (unless it something no one else makes - which, in your case, shouldn't be a problem).
I'm sure there are others on here who can, and will be, more specific.
GastonMarty
Joined: April 19, 2008
KitMaker: 595 posts
Armorama: 69 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 09:33 AM UTC
The best German subject 1/48th kits are pretty much all Tamiya, which is why I often complained they should have been treated differently by Tamiya (with zimmeritt, more complexity, and most of all better accuracy and detail, no solid grab handles etc) since they were going to forever corner this very limited market on this most important selection of all for an armor scale...
Tamiya has slipped quite a few duds in there: The Panther, Jagdpanther, Hetzer, Kublewagen and King Tiger are all poor or very poor kits in my opinion.
The Kublewagen and Hetzer are the worst of the bunch, the Kubel looking nothing like the real one, way too wide, to the tune of 4 inches in the windshield and two in the body...
The Hetzer misses all the basic plate dimensions by two or three inches, and has a wrong roof position as a result. (See my upcoming comparison with the Dragon and excellent Eduard 1/35th kist in the future)
The King Tiger is poorly detailed, with too short a glacis, no sponsoons, way too thin tracks. The Henshel turret is really terrible, missing every single plate angle that could be missed by large amounts, except for the flat part of the roof... Yippee...
On the good side the Porshe turret is very good but shares the silly too tall cupola of the Henshel turret.
Tamiya's Tiger 1 has a better turret than Skybow, but Skybow has a better hull body: It pays to kit-bash those as the Skybow turret lacks any really deep underchin cut-out, and that can be spotted for miles and miles...
The Panzer IV has lots of small problems, but overall could be construed as OK if measuring a real one is not possible: I personally don't like it: Same thing with the Stugs.
The Krup Protze is very poor accuracy-wise, and the bonnet looks nothing like the real thing.
The Marder, Panzer III, Panzer I, Steyr 1500, Jagdtiger often need at least photo-etch grilles, but they are otherwise truly outstanding kits.
Except for the Panzer III, which is excellent despite being part of the one-year flood of releases of 2006, you'll note all the others "good" Germans are much more recent releases. This shows Tamiya finally understood there were no five-year olds looking at 1/48th as an entry scale... What a shocker... But the damage to the scale was irreparably done imho...
No post-1943 grays, as was said, but in late 1944 some hard-edge brown and green, or single colour dark yellow camo can be found which will spare you the use of an airbrush... Some were simply mop-painted over with mud on the Eastern Front, if that helps...
Gaston
SunburntPenguin
Joined: March 15, 2011
KitMaker: 121 posts
Armorama: 6 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 10:24 AM UTC
Gaston
All those kits you have mentioned all look like the real thing to me and I guess a lot of other people would think the same.
I enjoy the Tamiya 1/48th scale armour kits as they are quick to build and look great when you are done.
Millimetre accuracy, who really cares about that? If that is what you care about, fill your boots, but as I said before if it looks like the real thing, that is enough for me.
You mention that you wanted Tamiya to incorporate Zimmeritt, why should they bother with that? Not all the vehicles they have released had that applied and if they did incorporate it in the kits, it would demand two separate sets of moulds, much easier to use putty and do it yourself I think.
Same with the solid grab handles, replace them with wire, problem solved.
All those kits you have mentioned all look like the real thing to me and I guess a lot of other people would think the same.
I enjoy the Tamiya 1/48th scale armour kits as they are quick to build and look great when you are done.
Millimetre accuracy, who really cares about that? If that is what you care about, fill your boots, but as I said before if it looks like the real thing, that is enough for me.
You mention that you wanted Tamiya to incorporate Zimmeritt, why should they bother with that? Not all the vehicles they have released had that applied and if they did incorporate it in the kits, it would demand two separate sets of moulds, much easier to use putty and do it yourself I think.
Same with the solid grab handles, replace them with wire, problem solved.
GregCloseCombat
Joined: June 30, 2008
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,394 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 12:12 PM UTC
I think the Panzer IIIL or N, Jagdtiger, Panzer IVJ (whitewash it since it's late war), Stuka Fuss Halftrack, AFV Club Halftrack is nice but a lot of parts (Luckymodel $13), Italeri Puma armored car is also popular
Check out the Gallery at Track48.com or onefortyeight.com and look around at which kits look good built up to you
Check out the Gallery at Track48.com or onefortyeight.com and look around at which kits look good built up to you
White_Tiger
Joined: October 28, 2012
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 02:50 PM UTC
Well think i should stick to tamiya probably since then at least i can try to stay in a uniform size scale.... As for painting i guess i can't get away with Grey Panthers and Tigers all over the place then? (and king tigers...) does anyone have a link to a good painting guide for the camo and so on? I am thinking of doing eastern front, which should let me play with white wash and snow effect at least 
AFVFan
Joined: May 17, 2012
KitMaker: 1,980 posts
Armorama: 1,571 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2012 - 04:06 PM UTC
No, the grey wouldn't be proper on a few of the vehicles, but you could go with a solid dunkelgelb on those, if you didn't want to play with camo patterns.
If you do, check out the Paint forum here. There's a post stickied right towards the top of the list that has a great breakdown of the camo colors and when they were supposed to have been issued. With that said, keep in mind that some of the vehicles were painted in the field and have very non-standard camo patterns on them. Here's an obvious example:
Again, unless you're doing a specific tank, at a specific time, there's room to play a bit.
If you do, check out the Paint forum here. There's a post stickied right towards the top of the list that has a great breakdown of the camo colors and when they were supposed to have been issued. With that said, keep in mind that some of the vehicles were painted in the field and have very non-standard camo patterns on them. Here's an obvious example:
Again, unless you're doing a specific tank, at a specific time, there's room to play a bit.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 03:25 AM UTC
For your early Tiger l and late Tiger l (with molded on zimmerit) I definately have to reccomend Skybow/AFV as their kits are clearly superior to Tamiya and usually (depending on the store)cheaper. No clunky under-detailed metal lower hull. Better defined and finer detailed pieces. And the late Tiger with zimmerit and steel wheels is extremely well done in 1/48. My only critisism is the decals which kinda suck - they're water slide but also reversed so have to be pressed on like Archer. Replacement decals can easily be scrounged. I would also highly reccomend AFV's Sd Kfz 251 C, if it is still avaialable anywhere. 
sauceman
Joined: September 28, 2006
KitMaker: 2,672 posts
Armorama: 2,475 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 04:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
No, the grey wouldn't be proper on a few of the vehicles, but you could go with a solid dunkelgelb on those, if you didn't want to play with camo patterns.
If you do, check out the Paint forum here. There's a post stickied right towards the top of the list that has a great breakdown of the camo colors and when they were supposed to have been issued. With that said, keep in mind that some of the vehicles were painted in the field and have very non-standard camo patterns on them. Here's an obvious example:
Again, unless you're doing a specific tank, at a specific time, there's room to play a bit.
I read somewhere that German tanks were issued with a spray gun and compressor...
cheers
miniflea
Joined: October 17, 2011
KitMaker: 237 posts
Armorama: 235 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 05:10 AM UTC
Tamiya doesn't make a Panzer I kit, and I don't know of anyone who does in 1/48. Perhaps someone makes a resin kit? I, too, would like to eventually create a sort of "brief history of German armor" with one example of all the vehicles you mentioned. I used to build nothing but 1/48 armor, but I've taken to building 1/35 scale self propelled guns while I wait for new Tamiya releases. On the one hand, they are quite detailed and take me a long time to build, on the other, there are plenty of obscure subjects that I doubt will ever see a 1/48 scale release.
While I hesitate to be overly critical, most of Gaston's objections strike me as borderline autistic nitpicks. I'm sure you are correct in your criticisms, but to me if it looks like the vehicle in question when I am done, I'm happy. Of course, if hyper-accuracy is what you like, then more power to you! I do find myself more concerned with historical accuracy the more my skills improve and the more my reference library grows.
As for wanting to paint everything gray, push yourself and do a dark yellow King Tiger! It does end up looking better than you probably think.
While I hesitate to be overly critical, most of Gaston's objections strike me as borderline autistic nitpicks. I'm sure you are correct in your criticisms, but to me if it looks like the vehicle in question when I am done, I'm happy. Of course, if hyper-accuracy is what you like, then more power to you! I do find myself more concerned with historical accuracy the more my skills improve and the more my reference library grows.
As for wanting to paint everything gray, push yourself and do a dark yellow King Tiger! It does end up looking better than you probably think.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 05:48 AM UTC
For more info specific to 1/48 you might try Track48.com. Our good friend Gaston usually appears there too. 
Nito74
Joined: March 04, 2008
KitMaker: 5,386 posts
Armorama: 4,727 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 06:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well i want to collect one of each German tank (then Tank Destroyers)Thus i have some questions for all of you. I was going to build all Tamiya kits but i have been told lately some other brands might be better! So can anyone help me figure out what would be the best models to keep an eye out for? Also does Tamiya's German Grey paint work for both earlylate war tanks since i hate painting brown and green camo. These are the kits i am looking at picking up in the next few months.
Panzer I
Panzer II
Panzer III
Panzer IV
Tiger I (late warZimmer Coating)
Tiger II (Porshe Turret)
Tiger II (Zimmer CoatingHenschel)
Depending on the scale.. nut for 1-35 I would pick
Panzer I - Tristar or Dragon
Panzer II - Tamyia
Panzer III - Dragon or Tamyia depending on the version
Panzer IV - Tristar or Dragon
Tiger I (late warZimmer Coating) - Dragon Zimm or AFVClub+AM Zimm
Tiger II (Porshe Turret) - Dragon
Tiger II (Zimmer CoatingHenschel) - Dragon
Panthers - Dragon
For the Tank Destroyers,
Panzerjager I - Dragon
Marder II - Dragon
Stug III - Dragon or Tamyia
Jagdpanzer IV - Tristar or Dragon, depending on the versions
Jagdpanther - Dragon
JagdTiger - Tamyia or Dragon
You can use Tamyia german grey for tanks between 1939 & 1943
then use a basecoat of darkyellow either plain or brown and/or green colours for different camo/ambush schemes.
White_Tiger
Joined: October 28, 2012
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 09:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWell i want to collect one of each German tank (then Tank Destroyers)Thus i have some questions for all of you. I was going to build all Tamiya kits but i have been told lately some other brands might be better! So can anyone help me figure out what would be the best models to keep an eye out for? Also does Tamiya's German Grey paint work for both earlylate war tanks since i hate painting brown and green camo. These are the kits i am looking at picking up in the next few months.
Panzer I
Panzer II
Panzer III
Panzer IV
Tiger I (late warZimmer Coating)
Tiger II (Porshe Turret)
Tiger II (Zimmer CoatingHenschel)
Depending on the scale.. nut for 1-35 I would pick
Panzer I - Tristar or Dragon
Panzer II - Tamyia
Panzer III - Dragon or Tamyia depending on the version
Panzer IV - Tristar or Dragon
Tiger I (late warZimmer Coating) - Dragon Zimm or AFVClub+AM Zimm
Tiger II (Porshe Turret) - Dragon
Tiger II (Zimmer CoatingHenschel) - Dragon
Panthers - Dragon
For the Tank Destroyers,
Panzerjager I - Dragon
Marder II - Dragon
Stug III - Dragon or Tamyia
Jagdpanzer IV - Tristar or Dragon, depending on the versions
Jagdpanther - Dragon
JagdTiger - Tamyia or Dragon
You can use Tamyia german grey for tanks between 1939 & 1943
then use a basecoat of darkyellow either plain or brown and/or green colours for different camo/ambush schemes.
I happen to have 135 scale Dragon King Tiger Already (Which i really should finish painting....) that i did up in a white base coat with black camo and will be adding some snow to the tracks of.... and for now im going with 148 scale except for the biggest mean tanks of each country
AFVFan
Joined: May 17, 2012
KitMaker: 1,980 posts
Armorama: 1,571 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 02:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I read somewhere that German tanks were issued with a spray gun and compressor...
cheers
I know some of the vehicles came with the spray equipment to be used with the engine's air compressor. I don't positively know which ones though, other than the Tiger II.
The paint was a paste that could be thinned with just about liquid. In the field it was applied with whatever implements were available, including spreading it by hand.
White_Tiger
Joined: October 28, 2012
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 09:18 PM UTC
So...all in all i should stick to Tamiya 148 for now i guess? I can scale up to 135 after....
shavebeard
Joined: October 10, 2012
KitMaker: 151 posts
Armorama: 115 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 - 06:02 AM UTC
Kurt it depends on where you want to go modeling. if you think historical diorama modeling is your desire then 1/48 offers a firm kit-aftermarket base and is growing. although slowly now.for diorama work i find it ideal for i can cram more detail into a smaller base[doesn't take as much shelf space]the down side for a lot of modelers is that it's more difficult to achieve realism because it's smaller therefore harder to build those tiny little details.
1/35 offers a huge after market and kit selection that makes it very appealing for most fellas and years ago i built 1/35 a lot because i just couldn't find enough 1/48 kits to satisfy my modeling interest.[this is not a 1/35 slam fellas i think modeling in any form is great!]
My suggestion to you Kurt is think of what your interested in right now and go where it leads you as your goals in modeling will change as you master more skill and knowledge.
happy modeling.
Shavebeard.
PS nice topic.
1/35 offers a huge after market and kit selection that makes it very appealing for most fellas and years ago i built 1/35 a lot because i just couldn't find enough 1/48 kits to satisfy my modeling interest.[this is not a 1/35 slam fellas i think modeling in any form is great!]
My suggestion to you Kurt is think of what your interested in right now and go where it leads you as your goals in modeling will change as you master more skill and knowledge.
happy modeling.
Shavebeard.
PS nice topic.
White_Tiger
Joined: October 28, 2012
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 - 08:06 PM UTC
Thing is none of the kits are really that hard to build however i do enjoy the 148 scale building since its faster. On the other hand 135 is pretty fun and the size i am finding looks much better detail wise however take up a ton of room.
Marlowe
Joined: June 12, 2005
KitMaker: 289 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 - 06:16 AM UTC
This is not quite related to your topic, but you could also consider the range you have with beutepanzers (captured panzers). You could have KV-1s. KV-2s (you can get PE and resin parts for this conversion from Hauler), T-34s, etc., that can be painted German grey and have added details such as large crosses, German radio antennae, pioneer tools etc., like this:
The antenna is from Aber. You can also get notek lights, and pioneer tools from Hauler. Aber makes German tool clamps, you can add jerry cans and German figures.
Also, you can do an Italeri Autoblinda and make it as a German vehicle. Many were left just painted dark yellow without added camo paint, but get the AB-41 as the AB-43s all seemed to be elaborately camouflaged. The Italeri kit needs some finessing during assembly but can be completed in under half an hour.
The antenna is from Aber. You can also get notek lights, and pioneer tools from Hauler. Aber makes German tool clamps, you can add jerry cans and German figures.
Also, you can do an Italeri Autoblinda and make it as a German vehicle. Many were left just painted dark yellow without added camo paint, but get the AB-41 as the AB-43s all seemed to be elaborately camouflaged. The Italeri kit needs some finessing during assembly but can be completed in under half an hour.
GastonMarty
Joined: April 19, 2008
KitMaker: 595 posts
Armorama: 69 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 - 01:47 PM UTC
Don't forget to mention Hobby Boss KV's have dedicated German marking boxings, with full German gun/cuppola/accessories when needed, and that both of HB's Russian tanks types, KVs and T-34s, are way, way superior to Tamiya's equivalent Russian types...
Great work on that KV! And these photos really do it justice: The colours look to have the right overall shade balance (although the figure's skin is surely much lighter on the actual dio, I'm sure)...
Gaston
Great work on that KV! And these photos really do it justice: The colours look to have the right overall shade balance (although the figure's skin is surely much lighter on the actual dio, I'm sure)...
Gaston
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