Hello there, first time poster here. I have been looking through the forums for a while about this subject but i cant seem to find a direct answer so i thought id take the plunge and joining up. I was hoping you could help me by answering a few questions about these oil brands.

First, how are Abteilung 502 oils when compared to Winsor & Newton oils (when it comes to weathering)? What are the positives and negatives of each brand.

Two. The only places that i can find online that sellAbteilung oils operate out of Europe, and therefore charge an arm and a leg for shipping to NA. Does anyone know of any NA based websites that sell them for a reasonable price and that I dont have to pay $50 for shipping (such as MIG's website?

Finally, when it comes to weathering, do you guys recommend the use of oils, or other enamel based weathering products that are made by say, AK or MIG, or both and why?

I've just been asking these same questions to my fellow IPMS comrades. The only real answer they have given is it boils down to personal preference.

I know for a fact that there should be no difference between the two oil paints, they are both high quality paints. The only main difference would be the colors available, Abteilung has been created to help modelers weather models. You will have to mix WN to get the colors that Abteilung has...

You can mix anything that MIG or AK make yourself, which means it could be different for each batch you make. With MIG and AK they are prepared to be the same each and every bottle, every time. I've decided to buy a few just to try them out, but I have used both oils and enamels always. I don't see why you should have to pick one or the other. The main drawback to oils is the drying time...

So it all boils down to what you want, and how you want to go about it...

Cheers!!

Both are quality paints ... but there is one major difference actually ... and thats the price. The Abteilung 502 oils are about a quarter of the price of W&N. I have used these for a few years now and Im very happy with them. I brush paint with enamels, so these oils can be mixed easily with them, which extends the working time (or shortens the drying time of the oils), and also use them for washes, etc. I bought a 3-set of AK washes, just to see what MIG recommends, but I mix my own washes now ... from the MIG oils and/or Humbrol enamels. Dont really see the need to pay for expensive washes, when I have the necessary colours and thinner already.


You cannot really compare both items. Oils can be used for so many things including washes ... but the AK washes are just that. I have both and both are very useful and quality items. If you do not have experience of either ... Id recommend both.

You can purchase MiG oils from www.hobbyeasy.com. It is based in Hong Kong, but shipping cost isn't too high. I recommend registered shipping, unless you don't mind waiting a few weeks.
As far as comparing the oils, I have no idea. It isn't too difficult to get the same mix, every time with W&N. Just remember how many "dots" the mix is. Keep a written reference of any washes you have mixed.

You know Frank, I've never thought about the cost. I just did a check and I was surprised to find out that Abteilung is about half-price per volume and Winsor and Newton!! That in of itself is a motivating factor...

I was a month ago at the seminar with Adam Wilder in Holland and he was asked basically the same question - which brand of oils should we use. The answer was - ANY brand works fine. He is using Russian brand Master Class for several months now, which is extremely cheap and simple. Other things he was using at seminar (and I assume was using all the time) - Tamiya acrylics, Humbrol enamels and Vallejo acrylics for paintbrush.

The answer to your question what works best for weathering - your hands. Brands of oils or ready to use enamel products do not matter if you know what you are going to do. I've seen many examples when people were proud that they used the particular brand or particular product and the model looked just bad.
You can have just basic tones like white, red, blue, green and black and mix ANY shade of any colour you want. 1 tube of oil paint would last for long time (of course depending on how many models you do per year). I bought a set of cheap artist oils at the supermarket 2 years ago and I hardly used 5% of the tubes.
Same with enamel products - buy the desired colours from Tamiya enamels range and their thinner (or Humbrol if it is easier to find). When you need volume in mud - just mix plaster, enamels (and oils maybe) and maybe pigments if you like them.

I highly recommend watching latest DVD by Adam - Authentic Metal, where he shows how to do rust and things like that, but also weathering of red primer vehicles. The same techniques could be used for other applications too.

Not really .... there are cheap brands and there are cheap brands. MIGs oils are quality and are cheap compared to W&N, Rembrandt, etc ... but I have some cheap oils bought in a local art shop, and they are not "fine". I would not consider them as a quality brand (Lourve), as they have quite a grainy texture. I cannot comment on the brand Adam uses, but Im sure he used oils enough to know the difference.


Brian ... there are different ranges of W&N, and their most expensive range would be approx 4 times the price of MIGs oils per volume (Stockholm prices).

Frank, I have louvre and MIG, both are equal in performance.
So the only argument for taking MIG is being lazy in making a particular tone or if you are endorsed by them

The Barrel Store in Ontario (Canada) carries the oils, plus the other MIG products, and AK interactive

http://www.thebarrelstore.com/

W&N Artisan range And Winton range are both similar price or cheaper compared to 502, at least in the UK. W&N Artists range is considerably more. Daler Rowney Georgian range are perfectly good quality oils and are cheaper. Some modellers don't like the bigger tubes as quantities used are relatively small compared to artists doing canvasses. MIG's small tubes are well aimed at model makers.
I'd suggest just buying decent quality locally unless you can get free postage. Try W&N Liquin as a medium with the oils to increase transparency and speed drying. Oils slow drying is of course both a blessing and a curse. One trick to try to master is judging when the paint is at various stages of drying as you can then get it to blend and spread in different ways. This is what Mig Jimenez is referring to when he talks about stumping, for example. I guess the same technique applies to enamels too.

If a product helps me get the results I want for less money than other available products - heck I'm lazy then!!! And proud of it too

I use both W&N and Grumbacher because both are readily available and easy to find at my local crafts and arts supply stores.

I've been painting figures with both brands for a couple of decades and also using them for weathering and color modulation ever since Verlinden first showed some modulation techniques in his books back in the early 80's.

Frankly, learning to mix colors is a basic skill that everyone should master, and with the help of a color-wheel is actually pretty simple. There are plenty of suggested artist oil color mixes that can be found on-line for uniforms and flesh tones, and the uniform mixes are easy enough to translate to vehicle colors. Relying on ready-mixed colors, I think, stifles this learning process for a lot of modelers.

So, I would say that availability and costs (with shipping factored in) should be your main consideration. Use what's easiest to get. For me that's a trip to the art supply store where I buy other materials and supplies regularly anyways.

After that, I'd say regular artist oils are very versatile and offer much more flexibility in color mixing than pre-mixed proprietary colors. Also, that variety can prevent you from unintentionally making all of your models look exactly the same whereas using the same ready-mix colors on each model might not (unless you mix them, which then brings you back to the versatility of regular oils.)

In the end, I don't think, aside from pre-mixed colors, there's any significant difference in the quality of Mig, AK, W&N, or Grumbacher oil paints. They're all essentially the same on a model.

(BTW: The same applies to artist pigments and chalk pastels vs. proprietary "weathering" pigments - only the artist pigments are much cheaper to buy.)

My .02...

I'd answer neither W&N nor Abteilung 502

In my humble good oil color is more than enough. It isn't necessary that is a very expensive qualiity!

Oil, pigments, Ak products, enamels... Mixing all them allow to have a wider range of effects

cheers

Hi all

I'm new here, so please be kind if I'm asking the obvious... but what sort of thinner do you people use with oils? I've noticed Vallejo thinner mixes with enamel, Tamiya thinner doesn't, Tamiya thinner turns Vallejo paint to gloop etc etc. So what sort of thinner do you guys use with oils?

Thanks in advance

you can use Tamiya enamel thinner, turpentine or white spirit.

try steven international, they have all the abt oils.

anyone know how long shipping from hobbyeasy.com, in hong kong, to U.S. takes?

My LHS stocks Abt 502. https://shop.pantherhobbysupply.com/collections/paints/abteilung-502
Marko and Mira are good people and will take care of you.

Dave