Hello,
just want ask where I can find some picture from Centurion tanks, especially the up-gunned and up-armored version at BAOR. I searched via google but with no success. Furthermore I looked in the books about the Centurion but they are more technical descriptions. Finally I used the tankograd booklets which had some pictures but not enough to provide a conclusion about the look of the centurions at baor.
For this reason I ask if anybody know a source about centurion tanks at baor???
best wishes,
moritz
Hosted by Darren Baker
Centurion pictures at BAOR???
blabla
Joined: December 02, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 04:50 AM UTC
jon_a_its
Joined: April 29, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 05:24 AM UTC
Broadly speaking, Early Marks, post-war Deep bronze Green.
But for BAOR Late models and AVRE's, Bridgelayers etc, were in Mid-green & black,
The Tamiya NATO green & NATO Black are my preferred colours for this.
But for BAOR Late models and AVRE's, Bridgelayers etc, were in Mid-green & black,
The Tamiya NATO green & NATO Black are my preferred colours for this.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 05:47 AM UTC
Here are some 9th/12th Royal Lancers Mk 13s in Berlin (1970) :
Frenchy
Frenchy
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 07:18 AM UTC
I used to have a book on the BOAR. I think it was either a Simon Dunstan or Osprey publication. Great photos as I recall. Perhaps you can find a copy of it somewhere.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 07:58 AM UTC
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 08:05 AM UTC
Believe it or not, Tamiya Field Grey is a very good match for the green in the above photo.
mprobinson
Joined: January 09, 2011
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 11:02 AM UTC
Those are Mk12 not Mk13. Mk 12 was an upgunned Mk7 (therefore an upgraded Mk9, which was a Mk7 upgunned with L7 105mm gun) with IR, Mk13 was an upgraded Mk10 with IR. Great pics though and thanks for posting them.
Merlin
Merlin
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 06:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Those are Mk12 not Mk13.
Thanks for the correction Merlin. I'm no expert and I had just believed the pics caption
Frenchy
Keef1648
Joined: January 23, 2008
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 - 03:58 AM UTC
Lots of diesel and oil mix gone into wiping down those shiny Bronze Green Cents.... Plus the paint had a sheen to it to begin with.
With the cut in half Cent. in the Bovington Museum, I am surprised nobody has done a complete aftermarket interior?
Keith.
With the cut in half Cent. in the Bovington Museum, I am surprised nobody has done a complete aftermarket interior?
Keith.
blabla
Joined: December 02, 2006
KitMaker: 147 posts
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 - 06:10 AM UTC
Hello,
first thank you for your help!!!
Maybe it is interesting for you, too: http://m136.de/ it is a homepage with many many images from exercises under the link `Manöver´.
Best wishes!!!
first thank you for your help!!!
Maybe it is interesting for you, too: http://m136.de/ it is a homepage with many many images from exercises under the link `Manöver´.
Best wishes!!!
bigmal
Joined: February 21, 2011
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 - 06:43 AM UTC
The best way to know the difference between Mk12 and Mk13 from the front is to look on the front slope of the turret roof.
The Mk12 has 6 holes drilled into the armour with bolt heads in them on the bottom LHS as viewed.
Malc.
The Mk12 has 6 holes drilled into the armour with bolt heads in them on the bottom LHS as viewed.
Malc.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 - 07:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Lots of diesel and oil mix gone into wiping down those shiny Bronze Green Cents.... Plus the paint had a sheen to it to begin with.
With the cut in half Cent. in the Bovington Museum, I am surprised nobody has done a complete aftermarket interior?
Keith.
In Berlin the US used either baby oil or non-corrosive brake fluid. A little baby oil goes a long way.
mprobinson
Joined: January 09, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 - 09:23 AM UTC
The old webshots website had some great pics of BAOR Centurions, Chieftains and Conquerors of the 16/5th Lancers, hope they go back up again when Smile is up and running. The guy went by Scarlet Lancer and he had some of the best pics for BAOR fans.
Keef1648
Joined: January 23, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 - 01:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Those are Mk12 not Mk13. Mk 12 was an upgunned Mk7 (therefore an upgraded Mk9, which was a Mk7 upgunned with L7 105mm gun) with IR, Mk13 was an upgraded Mk10 with IR. Great pics though and thanks for posting them.
Merlin
I had the pleasure of being trained as a Centurion gunner in 1966 and fired both 20pdr. and 105 mm.
A little more information to make it precise.
Centurion Mk 7 was designed by Leyland and designated the FV4007.
Armed with a 20-pounder gun with fume extractor and carries 61 rounds of 20-pounder ammunition.
Centurion Mk 7/1 is a Mk 7 up-armoured and designated FV4012.
Centurion Mk 7/2 is a Mk 7 with a 105 mm gun.
Centurion Mk 8 was developed from the Mk 7 and has a resiliently mounted gun mantlet with no canvas cover and the commander's cupola is contrarotating.
The commander can also raise his twin hatch covers in an umbrella fashion for improved visibility without revealing his position.
Centurion Mk 8/1 is Mk 8 up-armoured.
Centurion Mk 8/2 is Mk 8 with 105 mm gun.
Centurion Mk 9 is Mk 7 up-armoured and up-gunned with 105 mm gun, designated the FV4015.
Centurion Mk 9/1 is Mk 9 with infra-red night vision equipment and stowage basket on rear of turret.
Centurion Mk 9/2 is Mk 9 with 12.7 mm (.50 Cal.) ranging machine gun.
Centurion Mk 12 is Mk 9 with infra-red night vision equipment, 12.7 mm ranging machine gun and stowage basket on turret rear.
Centurion Mk 13 is Mk 10 with 12.7 mm (.50 Cal.) ranging machine gun and infra-red night vision equipment.
Keith.
mprobinson
Joined: January 09, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 - 11:06 PM UTC
Thanks Keith, I forgot all about the RG on the later marks. Did you serve on early Chieftains too? I am trying to put together some markings guidelines for Centurion, Conqueror and Chieftain 1960 to 1970 period so if you have any insights into unit codes or markings drop me a PM.
Thanks
Merlin
Thanks
Merlin
Keef1648
Joined: January 23, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 01:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks Keith, I forgot all about the RG on the later marks. Did you serve on early Chieftains too? I am trying to put together some markings guidelines for Centurion, Conqueror and Chieftain 1960 to 1970 period so if you have any insights into unit codes or markings drop me a PM.
Thanks
Merlin
After qualifying as a Centurion crewman I passed off (graduated) from the Junior Leaders Regiment (RAC) and joined my chosen regiment 'The Life Guards' in the Far East. They were an armoured recce. regiment and so I had to undergo conversion courses on the Saladin and its 76mm.
When the regiments roles changed in 1970 they were to move from Windsor and take over from the Blues and Royals in Detmold and for the first time in their history, become a Tank regiment and Chieftain.
I chose to move to London and join our ceremonial mounted regiment, which lasted almost 5 years. upon returning I trained as a gunnery instructor on CVR(T) Scorpion, Scimitar and CVR(W) Fox.
In 1980 I went to the gunnery school (Lulworth) and went through my gunnery Instructors conversion course and then it was off to Germany and Chieftains, followed by Challenger 1.
I will see what I can dig up in the way of markings for you.
Keith.
mprobinson
Joined: January 09, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 01:07 PM UTC
Many thanks Keith. Some units in the late 1960s kept the marking systems used on the Centurions for the first few Chieftains they received, the 15/19H being a good example. One really persistant question I have yet to find a good answer for was why did some of the Mk2s at Bovington in 1968-70 period have white painted smoke dischargers? A good pic of one such tank in colour appears on the front cover of one of the old Ellis and Chamberlain titles, a Blues and Royals vehicle. It was not apparently a Blues and Royals thing because the Kenneth Macksey title on the history of teh RAC shows another pair of Chieftain Mk2s from the same period minus B&R crests but still with white smoke dischargers... did you ever see that marking in your JLR days or at any time at Bovington?
Keef1648
Joined: January 23, 2008
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 01:11 AM UTC
I do not recall seeing any Chieftains with White painted grenade launchers but it may well have been an early method of marking a safety arc for the commander for live firing.
The BATUS vehicles have a painted White line on the turrets for the same purpose...
Keith.
The BATUS vehicles have a painted White line on the turrets for the same purpose...
Keith.
ossie262
Joined: August 31, 2009
KitMaker: 256 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 11:23 AM UTC
hi
ok the centurion at munster lager is a MK12H 105mm AVRE and was in service till after gulf war 1
now besides bronze green there is several instances of three and four tone camouflage being used
also black on bronze green.
also soem were in nato green and black towards the end of there life but served along side chieftain . but also some of these had hush puppies tracks fitted.
tankograd BAOR 1945 to 1979 full of pictures
i did my Centurion drivers course in 1975 , drove centurion ARKS, AVRES, ARVs and Bridgelayers ,also Chieftain AVLB CHAVRE intrim and CHAVRE. and still work on tanks as a day time job.
ok the centurion at munster lager is a MK12H 105mm AVRE and was in service till after gulf war 1
now besides bronze green there is several instances of three and four tone camouflage being used
also black on bronze green.
also soem were in nato green and black towards the end of there life but served along side chieftain . but also some of these had hush puppies tracks fitted.
tankograd BAOR 1945 to 1979 full of pictures
i did my Centurion drivers course in 1975 , drove centurion ARKS, AVRES, ARVs and Bridgelayers ,also Chieftain AVLB CHAVRE intrim and CHAVRE. and still work on tanks as a day time job.
mprobinson
Joined: January 09, 2011
KitMaker: 44 posts
Armorama: 43 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 12:46 PM UTC
Ossie you are an expert, ever thought of writing a Centurion book? 
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