Hey Folks,
I bought my first tube of burnt umber oil with the intention of advancing my weathering skills. I then realized I might need to mix it with something to turn it into wash, filter or "other". Any suggestions? I looked on the Winsor site, but there are about a dozen "mediums", and I'm not really sure if I need to buy those or not.
Thanks!
AFV Painting & Weathering
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Winsor and Newton Medium?
FetidRanger
Joined: December 28, 2011
KitMaker: 36 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 10:22 AM UTC
SdAufKla
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 10:49 AM UTC
Ordinary hardware store mineral spirits works just fine to thin artist oils for washes or filters and also for brush cleaning.
You can get a quart or gallon from Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, or even from Walmart (in the paint / home improvement section). It's pretty inexpensive, too.
You can even use the "odorless" variety if you want.
Don't use artist "turps" or turpentine, though. They quite aggressive and will often strip even acrylic undercoats.
However, the mineral spirits will not harm acrylic base coats or cammo colors and will usually not harm even hobby enamels if they've dried out thoroughly.
HTH,
You can get a quart or gallon from Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, or even from Walmart (in the paint / home improvement section). It's pretty inexpensive, too.
You can even use the "odorless" variety if you want.
Don't use artist "turps" or turpentine, though. They quite aggressive and will often strip even acrylic undercoats.
However, the mineral spirits will not harm acrylic base coats or cammo colors and will usually not harm even hobby enamels if they've dried out thoroughly.
HTH,
didgeboy
Joined: September 21, 2010
KitMaker: 1,846 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 11:30 AM UTC
Sunnyside Odorless Mineral spirits are readily available in the US at most hardware stores. A gallon will set you back less than $30 and should last a LONG time. I transfer mine into smaller jars, baby food jars work great, and then transfer to my pallet when needed. Cheers.
FetidRanger
Joined: December 28, 2011
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 12:52 AM UTC
Best Forum around. Thanks Folks!
iowabrit
Joined: November 06, 2007
KitMaker: 585 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 01:59 AM UTC
I would strongly suggest odorless thinners (sometimes called Sansodour). I have found through bitter experience, that ordinary mineral spirits will make certain kit makers plastic extremely brittle and liable to just fall apart. Italeri and Tasca are two brands I had this happen with before switching to low odor thinners.
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I would strongly suggest odorless thinners (sometimes called Sansodour). I have found through bitter experience, that ordinary mineral spirits will make certain kit makers plastic extremely brittle and liable to just fall apart. Italeri and Tasca are two brands I had this happen with before switching to low odor thinners.
Interesting issue. I'm assuming that you're painting with enamels.
I paint with Acrylics seal with a Future product to decal, then seal again. Then I start my washes both air brushed acrylics, and oils applied via a brush, so the run of the mill brands of Mineral Spirits found in hardware stores never touch raw plastic.
Joel
cdharwins
Joined: October 28, 2006
KitMaker: 491 posts
Armorama: 462 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 06:06 AM UTC
Turpenoid dude. No odor, pretty mild. It doesn't harm the acrylic base coat.
Chris
Chris
iowabrit
Joined: November 06, 2007
KitMaker: 585 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 07:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI would strongly suggest odorless thinners (sometimes called Sansodour). I have found through bitter experience, that ordinary mineral spirits will make certain kit makers plastic extremely brittle and liable to just fall apart. Italeri and Tasca are two brands I had this happen with before switching to low odor thinners.
Interesting issue. I'm assuming that you're painting with enamels.
I paint with Acrylics seal with a Future product to decal, then seal again. Then I start my washes both air brushed acrylics, and oils applied via a brush, so the run of the mill brands of Mineral Spirits found in hardware stores never touch raw plastic.
Joel
No, I use acrylics and this happened AFTER I had sealed the paint layer with future.... On my Italeri AB41 the entire suspension fell to pieces, on the Tasca Luchs it was the torsion bars. I think it was due to wash being trapped in certain places, so now I apply a wash and then sit the model in front of a fan to speed up the evaporation of the the thinners.
FetidRanger
Joined: December 28, 2011
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 08:13 AM UTC
Just went to the local Ace hardware and they did not have pure mineral spirits. They did have paint thinner "made with mineral spirits". I got some, but maybe I will test it on some older models before I take the chance, hmmmm? 
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 08:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
No, I use acrylics and this happened AFTER I had sealed the paint layer with future.... On my Italeri AB41 the entire suspension fell to pieces, on the Tasca Luchs it was the torsion bars. I think it was due to wash being trapped in certain places, so now I apply a wash and then sit the model in front of a fan to speed up the evaporation of the the thinners.
Honestly, I've never heard of anything like what you're describing. You're not applying enough mineral spirits that usually evaporates fast enough as to not have the chance to work it's way through all those layers and attack the plastic in large enough quantities to cause the reaction you're describing. Future is pretty tough stuff as it's primary use is a floor protective coating. I use washes with a mineral spirit base over Pledge, and it's never dissolved it, and got to the acrylic paint.
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 08:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just went to the local Ace hardware and they did not have pure mineral spirits. They did have paint thinner "made with mineral spirits". I got some, but maybe I will test it on some older models before I take the chance, hmmmm?
I'd return it, and just get Mineral Spirits some place else.
Joel
russamotto
Joined: December 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,389 posts
Armorama: 2,054 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 09:55 AM UTC
If you hit a big box store like Lowes or Home Depot they have a good selection. I use odorless thinner and have had no problems with it reacting with the kit finish.
SdAufKla
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2012 - 10:51 AM UTC
Interesting -
I use "Klean-Strip" brand "Odorless Mineral Spirits." The gallon jug that I have is dated 2005, and it looks like I still have over a pint left in it.
I'm pretty sure I got this at Walmart since the last quart can of lacquer thinner I bought about a month ago was also from Walmart and is "Klean-Strip" brand, too.
I've never had any problems or issues with this mineral spirits affecting underlying acrylic, enamel or lacquer (Floquil RR Colors) paints.
I'm sure I only paid a few dollars for the gallon of mineral spirits. The quart of lacquer thinner I just bought was about the same price as a 1 oz bottle of Testor's brand lacquer thinner at my LHS.
HTH,
I use "Klean-Strip" brand "Odorless Mineral Spirits." The gallon jug that I have is dated 2005, and it looks like I still have over a pint left in it.
I'm pretty sure I got this at Walmart since the last quart can of lacquer thinner I bought about a month ago was also from Walmart and is "Klean-Strip" brand, too.
I've never had any problems or issues with this mineral spirits affecting underlying acrylic, enamel or lacquer (Floquil RR Colors) paints.
I'm sure I only paid a few dollars for the gallon of mineral spirits. The quart of lacquer thinner I just bought was about the same price as a 1 oz bottle of Testor's brand lacquer thinner at my LHS.
HTH,
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 05:14 AM UTC
I generally use artist's turpenoid for those W & N things for doing pin-washes and sometimes body-washes. Short of really soaking the kit in the stuff, I've never had any fall-aparts nor finish-damage. At worst, when getting a lot on and having it pool, I sometimes find very tiny stuff with tiny joins fall off. Still no finish damage.
In contrast, I have had thinners do damage to coat where I have applied enamels over acryls... and the enamel stuff can break down.
Goes to show that different folks have different experiences - but probably we are not really all doing the same things, so take different reports with the "grain of salt" and keep in mind that my results are from the combo of my actual techniques and materials - and others are likewise.
I almost never apply a Future coat (maybe I should...
), so cannot speak to that relationship with wash solvents.
My suggestion? Do a paint-hulk and try out the different things and see what they do. Be sure to let the base-coats and stuff fully-dry and cure just as YOU do on a real build, so that your tests are not muddied by doing something different, like washing an uncured coat in your test, when you don't do that on your build.
Bob
In contrast, I have had thinners do damage to coat where I have applied enamels over acryls... and the enamel stuff can break down.
Goes to show that different folks have different experiences - but probably we are not really all doing the same things, so take different reports with the "grain of salt" and keep in mind that my results are from the combo of my actual techniques and materials - and others are likewise.
I almost never apply a Future coat (maybe I should...
), so cannot speak to that relationship with wash solvents.My suggestion? Do a paint-hulk and try out the different things and see what they do. Be sure to let the base-coats and stuff fully-dry and cure just as YOU do on a real build, so that your tests are not muddied by doing something different, like washing an uncured coat in your test, when you don't do that on your build.
Bob
MadModeler
Joined: July 26, 2012
KitMaker: 454 posts
Armorama: 281 posts
Posted: Friday, December 21, 2012 - 10:56 AM UTC
I use Pébéo Odourless mineral spirit from France. Good stuff, and on sale at my local art store.
www.pebeo.com
www.pebeo.com
Easy_Co
Joined: September 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,933 posts
Armorama: 985 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2012 - 12:13 AM UTC
I find if you dont cover everything with future the white spirit attacks theglue thatswhy the kit falls apart.first time I used P.E.this happened.
Hederstierna
#247
Joined: January 03, 2008
KitMaker: 1,102 posts
Armorama: 1,018 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2012 - 12:50 AM UTC
Hi David
Whatever you choose to use will probably be fine, just do remember to use these in well ventilated rooms. There's a lot of bad things in these products, even the odor less ones, so please think of this, when using these mediums. It could damage you so much, that you'll start building allied kits
Jacob
Whatever you choose to use will probably be fine, just do remember to use these in well ventilated rooms. There's a lot of bad things in these products, even the odor less ones, so please think of this, when using these mediums. It could damage you so much, that you'll start building allied kits
Jacob
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2012 - 05:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I find if you dont cover everything with future the white spirit attacks theglue thatswhy the kit falls apart.first time I used P.E.this happened.
Exactly! that's why I airbrush the entire model with several coats of Pledge before and after decaling. I further seal the weathering layers with Testors Dullcoat so one filter or wash doesn't dissolve the previous ones.
Joel
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