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The ASU-85 in Afghanistan?
DerGeist
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Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 04:51 PM UTC
I had read in another thread on this forum that the ASU-85 was briefly deployed in Afghanistan in 1979 and were seen around Kabul, I believe? Is there any information out there about these vehicles paint, markings(location, types) etc? As far as I know there are no references to this from English sources so I'm hoping our Russian friends will chime in. I just received Trumps 1970 model for Christmas and would love to make one that was used in Afghanistan, even if the build is based on pure speculation.


Erik
Karl187
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 04:27 AM UTC
I've seen one picture in a recent publication from Pen & Sword 'The Soviet-Afghan War' from their excellent 'Images of War' series. I will try and get you either a scan or photo of the picture in the book- in the meantime the caption beneath it reads:


Quoted Text

Soviet ASU-85 airborne assault guns of the 103rd Guards Air Assault Division were airlifted into Bagram Air Base outside Kabul. Just prior to to the Soviet motor rifle divisions rolling over the border the Soviets expanded their airborne strength in the Afghan city during early December 1979.



The picture is from the authors collection (the author is Anthony Tucker-Jones) and it shows four ASU-85's in the snow behind a line-up of aircraft with the first ASU in the picture numbered '532'. As I said, I will get you the picture at some point.
DerGeist
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 05:30 AM UTC
Awesome! Thank you so much. I honestly wasn't expecting any replies.


Erik
spetsnazgru
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've seen one picture in a recent publication from Pen & Sword 'The Soviet-Afghan War' from their excellent 'Images of War' series. I will try and get you either a scan or photo of the picture in the book- in the meantime the caption beneath it reads:


Quoted Text

Soviet ASU-85 airborne assault guns of the 103rd Guards Air Assault Division were airlifted into Bagram Air Base outside Kabul. Just prior to to the Soviet motor rifle divisions rolling over the border the Soviets expanded their airborne strength in the Afghan city during early December 1979.



The picture is from the authors collection (the author is Anthony Tucker-Jones) and it shows four ASU-85's in the snow behind a line-up of aircraft with the first ASU in the picture numbered '532'. As I said, I will get you the picture at some point.


I have the book, but are you sure that the pic of the ASU is in Afghanistan?, I have a feeling that it isnt.
by the way I have a pic from a local newspaper from the mid 80s in black and white from a Soviet base in Afghanistan with BMDs GAZ-66 and in the back 5 ASUs,but you cant see the paint or the markings, maybe I will scan the pic for you
1721Lancers
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 06:49 AM UTC
Hi Erik,
here´s the only two pics I found with a search of the net
earlier this year, I can´t gauranty there from Afghanistan:
Pics are for discusion purposes only.




Paul
Jimmy812
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 07:11 AM UTC
Hi,
i found this picture


I think it's the same that jamal means. I scanned it from one of those anual review books from 1980. Asu-85 in the background. somewhere I#ve seen a colored version of this picture but I don't no where and the qualitiy was also not the best. The Gaz-66 are also intersting because at least two of them are Gaz-66v with the soft top. And it seems that one of the btr-d is an command variant. I hope this picture helps a bit.
spetsnazgru
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 07:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi,
i found this picture


I think it's the same that jamal means. I scanned it from one of those anual review books from 1980. Asu-85 in the background. somewhere I#ve seen a colored version of this picture but I don't no where and the qualitiy was also not the best. The Gaz-66 are also intersting because at least two of them are Gaz-66v with the soft top. And it seems that one of the btr-d is an command variant. I hope this picture helps a bit.


yes that's the pic I was talking about, thanks for uploading it
DerGeist
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 12:15 PM UTC
Great pic. Too bad it wasn't closer up.


Here's another question. What units are represented by the decals in the Trump Model 1970 kit? I'm trying to figure out how the markings would have looked in 1979. I've seen two styles, 4 digit numbers and 3 digit numbers in the same area on the upper hull.


Erik
Karl187
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Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 11:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I've seen one picture in a recent publication from Pen & Sword 'The Soviet-Afghan War' from their excellent 'Images of War' series. I will try and get you either a scan or photo of the picture in the book- in the meantime the caption beneath it reads:


Quoted Text

Soviet ASU-85 airborne assault guns of the 103rd Guards Air Assault Division were airlifted into Bagram Air Base outside Kabul. Just prior to to the Soviet motor rifle divisions rolling over the border the Soviets expanded their airborne strength in the Afghan city during early December 1979.



The picture is from the authors collection (the author is Anthony Tucker-Jones) and it shows four ASU-85's in the snow behind a line-up of aircraft with the first ASU in the picture numbered '532'. As I said, I will get you the picture at some point.


I have the book, but are you sure that the pic of the ASU is in Afghanistan?, I have a feeling that it isnt.
by the way I have a pic from a local newspaper from the mid 80s in black and white from a Soviet base in Afghanistan with BMDs GAZ-66 and in the back 5 ASUs,but you cant see the paint or the markings, maybe I will scan the pic for you



Jamal- I agree with you that the pic in the book might not have been taken in Afghanistan- I guess only the author who has it would know.

By the way, I've just realised that I don't think I can post the picture here due to the copyright issue !
EdCraft
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 05:37 AM UTC
I think, the time has come to post the real photo of ASU-85 in Afghanistan:



I feel sure, that the appearance of these tired tankers themselves, their heavy protective clothes, dirty and shabby uniforms, together with some extra stovage on ASU's board - all these things speak for themselves, and speak about real combat actions.
Redprol
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 09:10 AM UTC
Hi Guys,
I have just had a quick scan of the Soviet General Staff report on the Soviet Afghan war and I cannot find any reference to the ASU 85, another source stated that each Airborne Assault Division had 1 battalion of ASUs (31) vehicles, but nothing on their deployment in the DRA. I also had a quick look at the DRA forces but again nothing.
Given the Soviet tactics at the time it’s possible they realised very quickly that the vehicle would have a limited utility in country, as their airborne troops quickly took to the sky in helicopters or when on the road in BTRs, BMPs and BMD/BRDM.
Whilst I’m no expert on this subject its possible some did arrive in the initial stages of the war given that the Soviets couldn’t completely trust the DRA forces, politically or militarily and as such believed they could have faced a more conventional military opposition.
I will keep looking and if I find anything will drop it here.
Redprol



spetsnazgru
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 09:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Guys,
I have just had a quick scan of the Soviet General Staff report on the Soviet Afghan war and I cannot find any reference to the ASU 85, another source stated that each Airborne Assault Division had 1 battalion of ASUs (31) vehicles, but nothing on their deployment in the DRA. I also had a quick look at the DRA forces but again nothing.
Given the Soviet tactics at the time it’s possible they realised very quickly that the vehicle would have a limited utility in country, as their airborne troops quickly took to the sky in helicopters or when on the road in BTRs, BMPs and BMD/BRDM.
Whilst I’m no expert on this subject its possible some did arrive in the initial stages of the war given that the Soviets couldn’t completely trust the DRA forces, politically or militarily and as such believed they could have faced a more conventional military opposition.
I will keep looking and if I find anything will drop it here.
Redprol

Redprol, any link to the general staff report?


Redprol
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 09:28 AM UTC
Hi,

It was published in 2002 by University Press of Kansas, its full published title is "The Soviet Afghan War, How a superpower Fought and Lost" Translated by Lester W. Grau and Michael A. Gress.
The ISBN IS 0-7006-1186-x

Is a fantastic reference I picked it up for my final year dissertation on, no surprise the Soviet Afghan war!
DerGeist
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 10:09 AM UTC
I've read the same book as well which is why I was surprised when I heard there was proof they were there in 1979. I wish I remembered what thread I saw it in...


Erik
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 10:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The picture is from the authors collection (the author is Anthony Tucker-Jones) and it shows four ASU-85's in the snow behind a line-up of aircraft with the first ASU in the picture numbered '532'.



This description rings a bell
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/193103&page=1

Frenchy
Redprol
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 10:33 AM UTC
Erick the number of threads I’ve chased well we’ve all been there!
I will have a further dig around, but given that only one photo appears to show one deployed, the countless photos of Soviet Vehicle grave yards haven’t shown one, and given the vast amount of knowledge held by users of this site hasn’t given an answer I think it’s a dead end.
Sorry mate if I turn anything up I will post.
Redprol
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 10:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think it’s a dead end.



In fact I've found several mentions of the use of ASU-85s in December 1979 in Kabul, including these two :

#1

#2

Frenchy
Karl187
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 11:26 PM UTC
Frenchy- yes the picture about half-way down that thread shows vehicle 532 behind the row of planes- the photo in the book I have is obviously taken in roughly the same area, although from a slightly different position. Thanks for posting that link !
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 11:31 PM UTC






To find more pics try tO use the term

АСУ 85 афганской войны

as a keyword for your internet research
EdCraft
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Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012 - 04:57 AM UTC
Dear Mauro !

All photos in Your post were made in Russia, in Peace-time.
18Bravo
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Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012 - 05:08 AM UTC
Well I guess I'm going to have to dig out my videos from the famed "Kabul Boneyard" which was actually closer to Pol-i-Sharki, and see what I have. I took them in 2002, even before jackasses came and started tagging everything. If one pops up I'll let you know. I do know I found an early T-54 and a T-34/85, so anything's possible.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012 - 10:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dear Mauro !

All photos in Your post were made in Russia, in Peace-time.



I'm really sorry!

I'll try to find some right reference pics
DerGeist
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Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012 - 11:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well I guess I'm going to have to dig out my videos from the famed "Kabul Boneyard" which was actually closer to Pol-i-Sharki, and see what I have. I took them in 2002, even before jackasses came and started tagging everything. If one pops up I'll let you know. I do know I found an early T-54 and a T-34/85, so anything's possible.



That would be great. However, I doubt there would be one there. It sounds like they were only used in '79 so I bet most of them were sent back to the USSR after they were completely phased out by the BMD-1.
18Bravo
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Posted: Friday, December 28, 2012 - 04:30 PM UTC
I'm betting there was very little if anything ever sent back. The "boneyard" was actually some sort of repair facility, but the Afghans didn't seem very adept at repairing much. Every month or so they'd cobble together a tank from apares and possibly get it running, but what I usually saw was them cutting up the hulls with a torch. We found assault boats with all of their BII, a biplane, A Hind A (we wanted to take the cockpit and make a bar out of it) and dozens of old M-72s, one of which a buddy of mine kept. I have two cannons dating back to the nineteenth century. Once something got left there, it didn't have much of a chance. I've been looking at some of my videos today. Man does it bring back memories.
I hope something will turn up.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 02:23 AM UTC
I believe the Soviets entered with everything that they would have sent had they invaded Norway or Japan instead, regardless of whether it was needed in Afghanistan or not. It was just easier and quicker to use an existing mobilization, loading, and deployment plan than to re-engineer the whole process. That's not to say that everything was used, merely that it was sent. (Obviously, heavy AA missiles did not get much use . . .)

KL
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