hello!
I'm in the process of building a stop-grap upgrade VAB intbetween the VAB and the VAB TOP, and I'm trying to figure out what to do with the turret. I have the upgraded gun (not the .50 with the long feed tray), and also, if the vehicle was stopped for mine clearance, would there be a gunner in the turret?
Also, would they be wearing a helmet, or a tank crew helpmet?
Thanks!
Hosted by Darren Baker
VAB Gunners station
10digitdeeo
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 109 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 04:28 AM UTC
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 05:03 AM UTC
Hi Alex
I can't help you with your first question, but this may help with the second one
Looks like there's nobody in the turret of the VAB (which is fitted with a LEMIR mine roller)...
H.P.
I can't help you with your first question, but this may help with the second one
Looks like there's nobody in the turret of the VAB (which is fitted with a LEMIR mine roller)...
H.P.
10digitdeeo
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 109 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 05:20 AM UTC
Great, that helps! that picture is almost what I want to do...it saves converting a figure!
Thanks!
Thanks!
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 05:23 AM UTC
You're welcome Alex. Here's another French sapper in action (in Lebanon BTW) :
H.P.
H.P.
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 06:31 AM UTC
I'd say the gunner should be at his station.
On the picture, you can hardly notice a rounded shape on the left of the ammo can under the first jammer antenna. I guess this is the top of the helmet.
In the CB127 cupola, the gunner head is "normally" not popping up as a safety measure. As the HMG is manually operated if you want to aim you have to keep your head low.
Concerning the helmet, except in some vehicles (command version for example) the gunner usually wears a combat helmet. But to ease communication with the driver you can see some with the soft tank crew one with headsets and a mike.
Last point, I can't understand what you mean by upgraded .50 gun and the version between VAB and VAB TOP. Could you please post a picture to help understanding? It would be easier to help.
TIA
Olivier
On the picture, you can hardly notice a rounded shape on the left of the ammo can under the first jammer antenna. I guess this is the top of the helmet.
In the CB127 cupola, the gunner head is "normally" not popping up as a safety measure. As the HMG is manually operated if you want to aim you have to keep your head low.
Concerning the helmet, except in some vehicles (command version for example) the gunner usually wears a combat helmet. But to ease communication with the driver you can see some with the soft tank crew one with headsets and a mike.
Last point, I can't understand what you mean by upgraded .50 gun and the version between VAB and VAB TOP. Could you please post a picture to help understanding? It would be easier to help.
TIA
Olivier
10digitdeeo
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 109 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 06:36 AM UTC
And he would most likely be wearing a normal infantry helmet, not a crew commander type bucket?
Also, perhaps this veers on off-topic, if I were doing this as 8eme Chasseur Alpin in Afghanistan (Task Force Tiger '09), what would be the make up of the section? As I understand it, the Driver/radio-gunner are separate, then there would be a 300m team, and a 600m team, plus the section leader? What kind of weaponry/manpower would be in one VAB?
Olivier, for the upgraded gun i meant this one -->
http://www.phpshopxml.com/blamod.shop/CID/baaa3c0ba7d75ff9560d412ed81acadd/function/itemPageDisplay/shopItemCode/BL35141K
It looks like a remote weapons station, or is it still manually fired?
Also, perhaps this veers on off-topic, if I were doing this as 8eme Chasseur Alpin in Afghanistan (Task Force Tiger '09), what would be the make up of the section? As I understand it, the Driver/radio-gunner are separate, then there would be a 300m team, and a 600m team, plus the section leader? What kind of weaponry/manpower would be in one VAB?
Olivier, for the upgraded gun i meant this one -->
http://www.phpshopxml.com/blamod.shop/CID/baaa3c0ba7d75ff9560d412ed81acadd/function/itemPageDisplay/shopItemCode/BL35141K
It looks like a remote weapons station, or is it still manually fired?
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 07:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'd say the gunner should be at his station.
On the picture, you can hardly notice a rounded shape on the left of the ammo can under the first jammer antenna. I guess this is the top of the helmet.
Hi Olivier
I had noticed that as well, but to me it looked to small to be a head
I trust your opinion !Quoted Text
It looks like a remote weapons station, or is it still manually fired?
It's a remote weapon station indeed, the Kongsberg Protector. You'll find some pics of the VAB TOP in this thread :
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/171977
TOP = Télé-OPéré = remote controlled
H.P.
10digitdeeo
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 109 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 07:54 AM UTC
Bien, je devrais savoir ca.
Thanks for everyone's help, now to get to building!
Thanks for everyone's help, now to get to building!
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 09:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
And he would most likely be wearing a normal infantry helmet, not a crew commander type bucket?
Most probably yes.
Quoted Text
Also, perhaps this veers on off-topic, if I were doing this as 8eme Chasseur Alpin in Afghanistan (Task Force Tiger '09), what would be the make up of the section?
There is no 8eme bataillon de chasseurs alpins. The three bataillons are the 7eme, the 13eme and the 27eme. TF Tiger was manned by the 27eme.
Quoted Text
As I understand it, the Driver/radio-gunner are separate, then there would be a 300m team, and a 600m team, plus the section leader? What kind of weaponry/manpower would be in one VAB?
You're right.
The 300m team have basically FAMAS rifles and AT4CS while the 600m team have a 5.56mm Minimi, a grenade launcher. The basic weapon in a VAB is the M2 HMG. Most of them have the QCB even with the manually operated cupola. In Afghanistan some supplemental Minimi or M2 have been mounted on field modified supports at the rear of the troop compartment.
Quoted Text
Olivier, for the upgraded gun i meant this one -->
http://www.phpshopxml.com/blamod.shop/CID/baaa3c0ba7d75ff9560d412ed81acadd/function/itemPageDisplay/shopItemCode/BL35141K
It looks like a remote weapons station, or is it still manually fired?
This is the Konsberg RWS named TOP (see the post above for the meaning). It is basically the same one on the Strykers but the French army did not fit the smoke grenades launchers.
Olivier
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 09:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Olivier
I had noticed that as well, but to me it looked to small to be a head
HP, it's just a guess. The gunner could have dismounted or simply be seated.
Anyway thanks for your trust
Olivier
10digitdeeo
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 109 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2013 - 09:18 AM UTC
Thanks for the correction! I don't know how I wrote 8eme, I meant 27eme....
Thanks again for all the info, most helpful!
Thanks again for all the info, most helpful!
TacticalSquirrel
Joined: May 12, 2010
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 538 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 04:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHi Olivier
I had noticed that as well, but to me it looked to small to be a head
HP, it's just a guess. The gunner could have dismounted or simply be seated.
Anyway thanks for your trust
Olivier
If they are on mission I can't think of a valid situation in which the gunner should not be in his turret scanning his sector of fire. If you need some, I took some pictures of VAB turrets when I was in Afghanistan in 2010, both the manned and unmanned variants. Every one of the VAB's I saw there was different though, it seemed like not one of them was ever the same.
TacticalSquirrel
Joined: May 12, 2010
KitMaker: 546 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 04:42 AM UTC
Here are some pictures, these guys were just into Bagram from a mission in Kapisa and were taking a break before heading back out.
TacticalSquirrel
Joined: May 12, 2010
KitMaker: 546 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 04:45 AM UTC
Forgot to mention this, one thing I found interesting is the French .50 cal ammo cans, they are the old WWII style cans, not the modern NATO simple style cans we used. Also as was said already, they had a mix of QCB .50's and older non QCB .50's as you can see in the pictures.
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 1,416 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 05:17 AM UTC
THX Steeve for these pics.
I have seen a 1st RI' VAB returning from A-Stan with another weapon station. Similar to the CROW :
I have seen a 1st RI' VAB returning from A-Stan with another weapon station. Similar to the CROW :
TacticalSquirrel
Joined: May 12, 2010
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 538 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
THX Steeve for these pics.
I have seen on a 1st RI' VAB returning from A-Stan with another weapon station. Similoa to the CROW :
That is the same Konigsberg RWS at in my pictures. Check out the optics, same set up. It does appear that they added the armor from the CROWS II to protect the optics from the side though, interesting.
One interesting thing I just noticed in your picture, the M2 still has the old WWII style optic mount on the receiver. I can see it in one of my pictures too but most of mine have the weapon super elevated so we can't see the receiver. It would seem then, that a WWII M2 set would be most appropriate for modern French forces, as long as you're not replicating a QCB variant.
terminators
Joined: February 20, 2012
KitMaker: 1,932 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 05:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
THX Steeve for these pics.
I have seen on a 1st RI' VAB returning from A-Stan with another weapon station. Similoa to the CROW :
Hello Pascal happy new year !
I believe these additionnal plates on each sides of the optics appeared on the VAB Ultima.
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 1,416 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 05:41 AM UTC
Thanks for the precision.
Manufacturer is Kongsberg :
http://www.kongsberg.com/en/kps/products/remoteweaponstation/
What is QCB. TIA
Manufacturer is Kongsberg :
http://www.kongsberg.com/en/kps/products/remoteweaponstation/
What is QCB. TIA
Removed by original poster on 01/08/13 - 17:45:51 (GMT).
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 1,416 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 05:47 AM UTC
[quote]
Thanks. The VAB from the First RI seems to be VAB TOP not Ultima
Quoted Text
T
Hello Pascal happy new year !
I believe these additionnal plates on each sides of the optics appeared on the VAB Ultima.
Thanks. The VAB from the First RI seems to be VAB TOP not Ultima
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 06:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What is QCB. TIA
QCB = Quick Change Barrel
On a side note, one of the VABs in Steve's pics is fitted with ceramic armor. The tiles are usually covered with a rubberish covering (a.k.a. "shark skin" ) but you can see some tiles on the turret.
ceramic armor
H.P.
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 1,416 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 07:23 AM UTC
THX Frenchy.
TacticalSquirrel
Joined: May 12, 2010
KitMaker: 546 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 08:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for the precision.
Manufacturer is Kongsberg :
http://www.kongsberg.com/en/kps/products/remoteweaponstation/
What is QCB. TIA
QCB is a quick change barrel set up that does away with use adjustable head space and timing and also installed a quick change barrel. FN came up with one going on 30 years ago, it's been adopted across the world. The United States Army is just recently implementing this as the M2A1. Biggest outward change is the handle on the barrel and the next barrel support.
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