I asked this question under my Pz.III thread, but have received no replies. So, I thought I would see if I could get more responses here. I want to put kill markings on my Pz.III with the shorter barrel(KwK 38). I don't believe kill rings would be appropriate. I have exhausted Google, Yahoo, and Ask with no luck. I want to use Archer's victory markings and need to know if they would be appropriate and where to place them? TIA.

Good question Matt. I know some of the StuGs have been seen with marks on the side of their superstructure. While the rings are the most common form seen, as there was no official rules (at least none that I've ever heard of) I would say do it however you'd like.

Matt;

Kill-marks on Pz. III... Interesting question! Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen any Pz III build pics with any "obvious" kill-marks - either barrel rings or icons of little dead tanks, etc - not, of course, that my not having seen such pics means that there are none done!

So far as I've ever seen on the web or in any of my pubs - Concord series, etc. - there don't appear to be much by way of historic photos showing III with any such markings. So, it seems that modelers have been pretty much realistic in not portraying this "feature" on their builds.

From what I've seen, barrel-rings mostly appear on later-war big tanks and TD - Marders, etc. Some earlier-war tanks and StuG may have had some kill icons painted on hull-sides, but this evidently was a rare thing, as very few pics show this stuff. Still, doesn't rule it out.

I would guess that either regs and unit policies prohibited this display, or there may simply have been less motivation to do so earlier in the war. Later on, I think "official attitudes" changed to favor victory marks so as to show "we're winning" whenever possible, owing to the increasingly desperate situation. But this would not apply to your earlier-war tank...

I think I would counsel letting the victory-mark go for your shorter-gun 5cm III, if you are interested in keeping nearer to historical accuracy?

Just a suggestion and my (feeble-minded!) opinion, of course!

Bob

Bob: I understand where you are coming from. I would think that any regulation prohibiting kill marks, would be known. I could go a different route, by the logic of friendly competition. After all, victory markings weren't required. As well, morale would have been an issue early in North Africa. The shorter barreled tanks were hardly the "indestructible" ones fitted with the longer barrel.
As far as I can tell, this is a gray area. If it was at all possible, I would like to go with the victory marks.

Matt:

Not to bash over that horse... my not having SEEN any pics showing such marks is not a certainty that such never happened. But I'll still stick to my belief that this was a rare, rare thing (hey, my mom didn't say I was sometimes as stubborn as an old oak for nothin'! ).

Here's a thought: it seems plausible that a DAK III tank could well have been involved in various actions other than tank-tank stuff - most covered infantry moves, etc. - and knocking out a Brit 25-pounder site or some such could be the thing which one expects did happen... so maybe one or 2 "cannon" icons ("Ikons; we're talking German, here!" jist funnin'!) and a lorrie could be your marking ticket. But, unless I miss my informed guess, all such marks would be pretty small and not geared for attracting enemy gun-fire as targets!

Cheers!

Bob

I was thinking of a few infantry marks, as the short barreled Panzers were out classed by the Allies' guns. Maybe something more along the lines of a "recon" or "scout" tank. Just a thought. Personally, I would never have believed that Germany painted some of the DAK Pz.IIIs road wheels white. But, the photos don't lie.

Matt;

Painted Pz. III road-wheels white? Don't think so. No good (or even bad) reason to paint them white comes to mind! I was, to be frank, rather dismayed to read bits popping up about this. Dusty? YES. Dirty? Of course! But painted? Either dark or white - Why bother?

Somewhere just today, for the first time, I read some bit about "native raw rubber is white". And yes, it is. Followed by rubber tires being white and painted black... NO, NO road-wheel ever came out wearing a white raw rubber tire. Raw rubber has almost NO tensile strength and is of very limited use. Which is why, until "vulcanization" was invented, rubber really was not very useful for tires.

Vulcanization is to heat raw rubber with sulfur - this changes its polymeric nature and creates strong cross-linkages, making vulcanized rubber very tough and also heat-resistant (raw rubber easily melts at rather low temps...). Carbon-black is added to further strengthen the effects of vulcanization - especially in tires - hence rubber tires are always substantially dark gray to black. From all this, and from the many old German tanks rusting away in APG and other museums, one should easily be able to see that none have any sort of "white" or off-white rubber tires. Actually, the remaining rubber tires appear to have darkened over time - much like very old tires on your car do. OLD tires actually start looking rather BLACK!

So... I would not be recommending painting German road-wheels white, unless one were trying to emulate a sloppy white-wash job! Rubber tires in Africa would be dark grays with variable dust and dirt worked onto them, much like on the road here - least I'm pretty sure that would be the case! But, hey! being wrong is nothing strange nor new to me!

Bob