AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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Pigment Fixer?
travh20
California, United States
Joined: December 26, 2012
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Joined: December 26, 2012
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 10:08 AM UTC
I had a question about pigment fixer. What is it? I know it is supposed to hold the pigments in place, I think, but what is it made of? Is there anything else I can use in its place? Does the pigment fixer work only with "wet" looking pigments, like mud, or can I use it with dry dust too?
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 11:13 AM UTC
I believe you are looking for IPA. It works to fix most pigments. I have never created a "wet" looking pigment. If you look at my Pz.III
you can see all of the reds are pigment.
you can see all of the reds are pigment.
rinaldi119
Oregon, United States
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 11:33 AM UTC
Hi Travis -
When working with pigments, in most applications you want a liquid carrier to help set them in place. We call these fixers now, and I tend to stick to two types.
I paint exclusively with acrylics, and typically when I am applying a thin layer of pigments for dusting or summer subjects where I won't have a lot of thick pigments to replicate dried mud Tamiya X-20A acrylic thinner works perfectly.
For those pigment applications that require stronger grip such as a thick dried mud layer on the lowe rhull sides behind the suspension I'll switch to a a dedicated Fixer such as that from MiG Productions or AK. These are enamels based fixers designed to give good adhesion when applied to the pigments.
I've never had pigments fall off the model with either fixer, even if I travel thousands of miles to a show with a model.
Neither of these fixers determine the wet look of the pigments, they both dry to a matte finish. For wet looks, you need to add a dedicated glossy agent such as Wet Effects or a few drops of a Gloss varnish to a dark wash or similar to create your wet looking mud or oil stains.
It's also a very effective technique to layer darker pigments over light pigments to illustrate fresher or wetter mud.
My usual process:
You can also create heavy dust applications by scrubbing the dry pigment into the paint, and then gently airbrushing the Tamiya X-20A thinner fixer on top. Simply hold the airbrush further away and lower the psi so it mists the thinner onto the surface, this will set them in place nicely and you can repeat the process to build up the opacity. It works best when the paint is a true matte finish so the pigments can grip the surface. This is how I did my M3 Lee...
Best,
Mike
www.rinaldistudiopress.com
www.facebook.com/RinaldiStudio
When working with pigments, in most applications you want a liquid carrier to help set them in place. We call these fixers now, and I tend to stick to two types.
I paint exclusively with acrylics, and typically when I am applying a thin layer of pigments for dusting or summer subjects where I won't have a lot of thick pigments to replicate dried mud Tamiya X-20A acrylic thinner works perfectly.
For those pigment applications that require stronger grip such as a thick dried mud layer on the lowe rhull sides behind the suspension I'll switch to a a dedicated Fixer such as that from MiG Productions or AK. These are enamels based fixers designed to give good adhesion when applied to the pigments.
I've never had pigments fall off the model with either fixer, even if I travel thousands of miles to a show with a model.
Neither of these fixers determine the wet look of the pigments, they both dry to a matte finish. For wet looks, you need to add a dedicated glossy agent such as Wet Effects or a few drops of a Gloss varnish to a dark wash or similar to create your wet looking mud or oil stains.
It's also a very effective technique to layer darker pigments over light pigments to illustrate fresher or wetter mud.
My usual process:
You can also create heavy dust applications by scrubbing the dry pigment into the paint, and then gently airbrushing the Tamiya X-20A thinner fixer on top. Simply hold the airbrush further away and lower the psi so it mists the thinner onto the surface, this will set them in place nicely and you can repeat the process to build up the opacity. It works best when the paint is a true matte finish so the pigments can grip the surface. This is how I did my M3 Lee...
Best,
Mike
www.rinaldistudiopress.com
www.facebook.com/RinaldiStudio
travh20
California, United States
Joined: December 26, 2012
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Joined: December 26, 2012
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 12:45 PM UTC
Awesome! Thanks for the reply, this will help a lot!
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 04:01 AM UTC
Micheal, very nice short and specific tutorial on fixers. I never knew that Tamiya's X20A works as a fixer. A real cost saver,and multi tasker. Since X20A is primarily Iso Alcohol, would just Iso Alcohol work as well?
Joel
Joel
rinaldi119
Oregon, United States
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 07:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Micheal, very nice short and specific tutorial on fixers. I never knew that Tamiya's X20A works as a fixer. A real cost saver,and multi tasker. Since X-20A is primarily Iso Alcohol, would just Iso Alcohol work as well?
Joel
That's a good question. I don't use alcohol myself, well that's not entirely true... but seriously, my thoughts are, alcohol would evaporate quite quickly and I had this problem trying to make enamel thinners work as a fixer, the evaporate so fast and can't grab the acrylic paint underneath.
Tamiya X-20A has something else that prevents this from happening at the same rate and I believe, but don't quote me, that this is what gives it just enough time to bite into the paint and provide the adhesion I'm getting.
If you have both handy, maybe run a test to see what works. My guess is X-20A will give you better results than straight Iso would. I'm sure the same question could be asked for the Windex/cleaner crowd but here I would not recommend it as Windex strips Tamiya paints almost immediately if applied direct to a model, so I'd be cautious with that stuff in this application.
Best,
Mike
www.rinaldistudiopress.com
www.facebook.com/RinaldiStudio
travh20
California, United States
Joined: December 26, 2012
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Joined: December 26, 2012
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 12:32 PM UTC
Well, I tried the tamiya thinner and it worked great! I used it to stick some dry dust on the wheels of my Panther and it is still on there, looking strong. Thanks for the tip!
18Bravo
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 12:51 PM UTC
I've used mineral spirits for since I was heavily into model railroading in the 70's. It works great and is a heck of a lot cheaper. But then, so are concrete pigments from Home Depot...
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2013 - 02:02 AM UTC
Tamiya X20A uses a retarder that you can pick up at a decent Art supply store. Your standard Iso Alcohol comes in 3 strengths that you can purchase at a drug store: 91%,70% (the most common), & 50%. The difference is the ratio of Iso Alcohol to distilled water. That's all there is in the bottle.
Since the Iso Alcohol evaporates quickly, the distilled water is the factor keeps it in a liquid state for a longer period of time. My guess is that the 50% Iso Alcohol would be the way to go, and or just follow the directions on the retarder bottle.
Joel
Since the Iso Alcohol evaporates quickly, the distilled water is the factor keeps it in a liquid state for a longer period of time. My guess is that the 50% Iso Alcohol would be the way to go, and or just follow the directions on the retarder bottle.
Joel
rinaldi119
Oregon, United States
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2013 - 08:13 AM UTC
Great info Joel.
And just a quick note with fixers (of any type), less is more. We are actually talking about applying it in very very small amounts, drops at most. So whatever product you use, it really isn't going to be consumed with this application in any great hurry. I'm still using my first bottle of MIG Fixer and I think maybe only 25% of it at that.
When using a liquid neat (meaning direct and straight on the model's surface), work with capillary action as much as possible. For example, touch the brush once to the surface and let the liquid flow out from it, the pigments act as an absorbent material and draw in the fixer. So you really should only be touching the model in a couple of spots to get the pigments wet, usually around the edges somewhere.
And it is a really really good idea to not mess with the pigments during or after by trying to move them around, this will instantly kill any texture you've created and look like a giant brush smudged your efforts.
Lay the pigments down carefully, or tap the brush from above so they fall naturally (it helps to place the model on its side during this step, as shown above on the Hetzer), then add the fixer, dry it (use a hairdryer on low heat, helps a lot), and add your stains and washes around the suspension and wheels. That's the general process for this application.
Best,
Mike
http://www.facebook.com/RinaldiStudio
And just a quick note with fixers (of any type), less is more. We are actually talking about applying it in very very small amounts, drops at most. So whatever product you use, it really isn't going to be consumed with this application in any great hurry. I'm still using my first bottle of MIG Fixer and I think maybe only 25% of it at that.
When using a liquid neat (meaning direct and straight on the model's surface), work with capillary action as much as possible. For example, touch the brush once to the surface and let the liquid flow out from it, the pigments act as an absorbent material and draw in the fixer. So you really should only be touching the model in a couple of spots to get the pigments wet, usually around the edges somewhere.
And it is a really really good idea to not mess with the pigments during or after by trying to move them around, this will instantly kill any texture you've created and look like a giant brush smudged your efforts.
Lay the pigments down carefully, or tap the brush from above so they fall naturally (it helps to place the model on its side during this step, as shown above on the Hetzer), then add the fixer, dry it (use a hairdryer on low heat, helps a lot), and add your stains and washes around the suspension and wheels. That's the general process for this application.
Best,
Mike
http://www.facebook.com/RinaldiStudio
ivanhoe6
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2013 - 08:25 AM UTC
Thanks Mike for the tutorial. I learned a lot !