Never used pigments before and have been looking at the Mig range.
Two obstacles are detering me
1 - there are so many and as they are pretty expensive I'm unsure what to buy
2 - the concept sounds great but I've not much idea what to do with them. Are they difficult to use?
There are some sets, mud and dust, wet mud, smoke and rust. They all sound good but that is over £60 ($100) - more than I'm prepared to spend.
So is it possible to pick out say 6 pigments that would cover most needs.
Alternatively I've heard that you can use artist pastels but all the sets I have seen are called soft pastels. I assume the ones I would need would be hard like chalk.
Appreciate any ideas or suggestions.
Cheers,
Nigel
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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Are Pigments Difficult to Use?
nheather
Joined: November 12, 2007
KitMaker: 295 posts
Armorama: 204 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 10:57 AM UTC
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 11:03 AM UTC
You should look at the AK Interactive pigments. For the same price of the mig stuff, you get much more pigment. They also only have about 8 colors in their range and the colors they have will cover most if not all bases with careful mixing. They are no harder to use than any other tool in our hobby, it just takes some practicing to get them to work best for you. You will need some mineral spirits and a matte surface. You can get many different effects with pigments.
pseudorealityx
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 11:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Never used pigments before and have been looking at the Mig range.
Two obstacles are detering me
1 - there are so many and as they are pretty expensive I'm unsure what to buy
2 - the concept sounds great but I've not much idea what to do with them. Are they difficult to use?
There are some sets, mud and dust, wet mud, smoke and rust. They all sound good but that is over £60 ($100) - more than I'm prepared to spend.
So is it possible to pick out say 6 pigments that would cover most needs.
Alternatively I've heard that you can use artist pastels but all the sets I have seen are called soft pastels. I assume the ones I would need would be hard like chalk.
Appreciate any ideas or suggestions.
Cheers,
Nigel
What types of effects would you like to achieve? Obviously if you don't typically do a lot of rusted bits and pieces, then you don't need those types of colors.
There are multiple videos online that you can find on how to use them. Here's a start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5DLQ_3J5Ys
nheather
Joined: November 12, 2007
KitMaker: 295 posts
Armorama: 204 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 07:08 PM UTC
I used to make AFV models (mostly hand painted Airfix jobs) as a kid. At the time I thought I did a great job, but looking back I know they must have looked like they had just rolled off the prduction line.
I'm getting back into the hobby and now that I'm older, and have more money to spare I'm trying to do a better job by buying decent kits, airbrushing and weathering.
So what I'm trying to do now is make my models look more used. Nothing extreme at the moment - no scenarios with a blown up rusted hulk. Just out of the box biuld but with dirt on the running gear, dust on the tank, some rust on tracks and muffer, perhaps some smoke, soot and oil stains.
Cheers,
Nigel
I'm getting back into the hobby and now that I'm older, and have more money to spare I'm trying to do a better job by buying decent kits, airbrushing and weathering.
So what I'm trying to do now is make my models look more used. Nothing extreme at the moment - no scenarios with a blown up rusted hulk. Just out of the box biuld but with dirt on the running gear, dust on the tank, some rust on tracks and muffer, perhaps some smoke, soot and oil stains.
Cheers,
Nigel
stoney
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 480 posts
Armorama: 399 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 07:22 PM UTC
Hi Nigel, sounds like much of what you want to achieve you can do with an airbrush and perhaps a few oil paints for washes and dot filters (there are a few great tutorials on these things both here and on other sites)
As for pigments I'd stick with some basic earth colours, perhaps a dark red brown, light tan etc. You can mix them to achieve different tones, I prefer mixing them dry.
Read up on some tutorials and dive in. Best of luck and post some pics!
Eric.
As for pigments I'd stick with some basic earth colours, perhaps a dark red brown, light tan etc. You can mix them to achieve different tones, I prefer mixing them dry.
Read up on some tutorials and dive in. Best of luck and post some pics!
Eric.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 07:26 PM UTC
If you are just getting started with pigments, I would recommend you start cheap. They may not be the best pigments, but are great for practice. I'm currently using Doc 'OBriens. They work well enough, but lack the range and depth of some of the more expensive ones.
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 07:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I used to make AFV models (mostly hand painted Airfix jobs) as a kid. At the time I thought I did a great job, but looking back I know they must have looked like they had just rolled off the prduction line.
I'm getting back into the hobby and now that I'm older, and have more money to spare I'm trying to do a better job by buying decent kits, airbrushing and weathering.
So what I'm trying to do now is make my models look more used. Nothing extreme at the moment - no scenarios with a blown up rusted hulk. Just out of the box biuld but with dirt on the running gear, dust on the tank, some rust on tracks and muffer, perhaps some smoke, soot and oil stains.
Cheers,
Nigel
I think the best tip about the pigments would be "less is more". Some people tend to exxaggerate, but a large amount of pigments on a model can "kill" a good paint job
The problem with chalk coal pastels is that they tend to be removed by clear paint coats. So they are perfect if you want to depict effect such the exhaust stains or dust, but according to my experience, you can't definitely fix them on your model. You have to apply them as a final step and hope that they could last enough.
On the other hand pigments are far more resistent and final matt coats don't have any effect on them.
I think that isn't necessary to have all the pigments available to start. You could buy one which reproduces the mud effects and another one good for the dust.
A tip which I learnt to use less pigments (and to save money) is mixing pigment with chalk. Your pigments will be a bit clearer but in any case effective enough
spacewolfdad
Joined: May 23, 2010
KitMaker: 642 posts
Armorama: 593 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 09:44 PM UTC
Hi Nigel,
For mud you could try Games Workshop's new 'Texture Paint', I have used it recently and find it excellent. It can be applied with an old brush and built up to produce thick mud, it dries reasonably quickly. The colour doesn't matter as you can paint over it. I sometimes use artists pastels, ground to produce a fine dust, and these work well. You can't fix them to the model, but if you aren't handling it they should be ok. Good quality ones will last a long while and they are relatively cheap. Make sure they are Artists Pastels and not Oil Pastels. Remember that before all this stuff came out to 'enhance' our modelling experience the
'old school' modellers used all these techniques to good effect. Just practice on your old models, a dusty effect can be obtained by simply dry-brushing light earth colours on running gear and lower hulls and this looks just as effective as pigments. Hope this helps.
All the best,
Paul
For mud you could try Games Workshop's new 'Texture Paint', I have used it recently and find it excellent. It can be applied with an old brush and built up to produce thick mud, it dries reasonably quickly. The colour doesn't matter as you can paint over it. I sometimes use artists pastels, ground to produce a fine dust, and these work well. You can't fix them to the model, but if you aren't handling it they should be ok. Good quality ones will last a long while and they are relatively cheap. Make sure they are Artists Pastels and not Oil Pastels. Remember that before all this stuff came out to 'enhance' our modelling experience the
'old school' modellers used all these techniques to good effect. Just practice on your old models, a dusty effect can be obtained by simply dry-brushing light earth colours on running gear and lower hulls and this looks just as effective as pigments. Hope this helps.
All the best,
Paul
nheather
Joined: November 12, 2007
KitMaker: 295 posts
Armorama: 204 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 02:14 AM UTC
To start with I was going to avoid the absolutely caked running gear. It looks impressive but I suspect that without the skill it can look terrible.
Going to practice on light weathering that you would get on dry european summers days, or north african deserts - avoid the rain, mud and snow until I have some skills under my belt.
Cheers,
Nigel
Going to practice on light weathering that you would get on dry european summers days, or north african deserts - avoid the rain, mud and snow until I have some skills under my belt.
Cheers,
Nigel
SdAufKla
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2013 - 03:42 AM UTC
Hi Nigel,
Check out our AMPS chapter's website "Group Builds & Demos" page:
AMPS Central SC:Group Builds & Demos
Scroll down to the bottom of the page to Demo 1: Pigments and Pastels to download the demo notes and see some examples of various effects and how they were achieved.
There are a lot of different options to proprietary MIG and AK pigments, to include just buying bulk artist dry pigments. The notes above cover several.
HTH,
Check out our AMPS chapter's website "Group Builds & Demos" page:
AMPS Central SC:Group Builds & Demos
Scroll down to the bottom of the page to Demo 1: Pigments and Pastels to download the demo notes and see some examples of various effects and how they were achieved.
There are a lot of different options to proprietary MIG and AK pigments, to include just buying bulk artist dry pigments. The notes above cover several.
HTH,
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2013 - 03:47 AM UTC
I've had good luck fixing pigments in place with AK's pigment fixer. That said, highly thinned sprays of dust colored enamel paint over clear acrylic followed by a wide soft brush with thinner/white spirit seem to give a more subtle effect and more manageable for me. I tend to use pigments more for a slight texture overlay than anything else. Except for exhaust stains, where I think pigments are ideal.
Matt
Matt
tankglasgow
Joined: October 04, 2010
KitMaker: 275 posts
Armorama: 260 posts
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2013 - 08:54 AM UTC
Nigel, thought I'd throw my twopence in here, I'm not long back into this game also and some of the techniques used today are new to me. I bought three chalk pastels (NOT oil pastels) from an artists supply shop brown ,white and black (cost a couple of quid), using a course file grind them down to produce some powder and then using a brush soaked in tap water lift some of the pigment and apply but be careful as when applying the end result will not become apparent till after the water evaporates, (maybe try on the insides of the running gear first) I am certainly no expert but this has produced some pleasing effects. For mud I mix up a slurry using water based PVA glue, water and ground down pastel and apply with an old brush. Good luck
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