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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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Urgent Painting Help
B1ue52
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 01:00 AM UTC
Hi

Apologies for not introducing myself before making my first post, but I have an elusive building day today whilst the wife is out and am at a point where I can't move on until I have solved this little issue.

Essentially, I have come back to modelling after a near 20 year break and have started using an airbrush for the first time. I have worked all that side out for myself and all is going good.

My issue is that I am building a Tamiya Super Sherman and have invested a lot of time in painting the main structures. Done all my pre-shading, base coat and base highlights to get the colour tones that I am happy with. I was starting to suffer a bit of handling rash so decided that before I move on to the decals and oil washes etc, I would give a coat of clear gloss to everything.

This has had the effect of muting down all the colour tones I have already applied and made everything look like the same shade of green, leaving only very subtle colour changes. I worked hard to get the tone changes that I was happy with, in anticipation of the oil washes and scale mist coats muting everything down at the end. Now I feel that those things will over mute everything and will just leave everything looking the same shade of green.

My question is this: When I come to flat clear at the end, will that bring the tone changes back, or should I re-loqlight and highlight now to bring some of the contrast back before proceeding?

Any advice on this would be very much welcomed.

p.s. Using Tamiya Arylics in the gun and for clear coat

Thanks in advance
Lonewolf7usa
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 01:13 AM UTC
First hello there! Second relax. After you get done with decaling and washes, Apply your flat coat and all will be normal again. You may have to touch up a bit with a little dry brushing but it will fix itself in the end. Check out my T-62 in the cold war mbt campaign. The before clear gloss and after applying the clear gloss. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I will have a flat coat on it so you can see the difference. Well good luck
B1ue52
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 01:59 AM UTC
Hey

Thanks for that. Your photos offer some peace of mind. Whilst I had around about the same level of contrast pre-gloss coat as you do, mine looks a little more muted after the clear, but that could just be reflection off the camera shot. Knowing it will come back after the flat coat is re-assuring, thanks!

Can I also ask... You seem to have a much higher shine after your gloss coat than I have achieved. Could you tell me what paint to thinner ration you used? I went with about 1:1.5 paint to thinner and have ended up with a more satin type finish, but again, your high gloss look could just be down to the camera but it would be good to know for next time.

Thanks for the assistance.
ProfessorP
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 02:00 AM UTC
Welcome! Agreed. The gloss has the effect of muting everything because all of the light is now being reflected from the surface. Once your decals are applied and you are ready to satin coat or flat coat, your shading will return.

Don't forget to post some photos!

Cheers.
B1ue52
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 02:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Welcome! Agreed. The gloss has the effect of muting everything because all of the light is now being reflected from the surface. Once your decals are applied and you are ready to satin coat or flat coat, your shading will return.

Don't forget to post some photos!

Cheers.


Thanks. and as I can't now edit it, in my original post I of course meant Super Pershing! Was just reading a thread on Shermans before post... duh!

I'll be sure to post some pics once complete as will be looking for some constructive feedback.

Thanks again.
Lonewolf7usa
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 02:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey

Thanks for that. Your photos offer some peace of mind. Whilst I had around about the same level of contrast pre-gloss coat as you do, mine looks a little more muted after the clear, but that could just be reflection off the camera shot. Knowing it will come back after the flat coat is re-assuring, thanks!

Can I also ask... You seem to have a much higher shine after your gloss coat than I have achieved. Could you tell me what paint to thinner ration you used? I went with about 1:1.5 paint to thinner and have ended up with a more satin type finish, but again, your high gloss look could just be down to the camera but it would be good to know for next time.

Thanks for the assistance.

Ok 1st the gloss coat I use is the amazing Future floor wax with no thinning added. 2nd there are about 5 thin coats of clear onmy T-62. As to the ratio of thinning on your clear coats follow the manufacturer's recommendation at first and then tinker with it until you are satisfied with the results. Have Fun
lespauljames
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 02:58 AM UTC
whatever you use DON'T use tamiya flat base for flat clearcoating. its meant to be mixed with paints to procure a flat finish, this will make your finish go all frosty.
Lonewolf7usa
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 02:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

whatever you use DON'T use tamiya flat base for flat clearcoating. its meant to be mixed with paints to procure a flat finish, this will make your finish go all frosty.
Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
B1ue52
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 08:19 AM UTC
Ouch, thanks for the heads up. I have already bought Tamiya Flat Clear and was going to use that. With that out of the question, does anyone have any recommendations for a nice flat clear?

Thanks all
Lonewolf7usa
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 08:39 AM UTC
Testors Laquer Flat coat mixed with a little floquil dust. Best flat coat around!!!!
B1ue52
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 09:15 AM UTC
Awesome thanks!
barkingdigger
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#013
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 09:49 AM UTC
Bear in mind Tamiya has a new clear flat on the market, XF-8something (can't remember the number, but it is in the 80s), that is meant to be a proper flat coat straight from the pot. Haven't tried it myself yet, but it is supposed to be a proper paint, unlike the earlier low-numbered Flat Base that was meant to be added to gloss paints to make them dull.

Personally I glosscoat over Tamiya acrylics with Microscale's Micro Gloss, and flatcoat with their Micro Flat. Use several light coats instead of one heavy coat, to avoid runs & drips!

Oh, and that business about highlights disappearing under gloss is a reflectance change - "flat" surfaces look like rough sandpaper under a microscope, scattering light instead of reflecting it. It's kind of the same old trick as getting an old car wet to make the paint look newer & less faded...

Tom
B1ue52
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 12:05 PM UTC
Thanks Tom

Microscale products are readily available to me so will give them a try. Any advice on thinning ratios on both the gloss and flat?

Cheers
TotemWolf
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 12:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

whatever you use DON'T use tamiya flat base for flat clearcoating. its meant to be mixed with paints to procure a flat finish, this will make your finish go all frosty.
Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh yeah!!

It's great for mixing with future at about 3parts flat to 10 parts future.
tatbaqui
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Posted: Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 12:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ouch, thanks for the heads up. I have already bought Tamiya Flat Clear and was going to use that. With that out of the question, does anyone have any recommendations for a nice flat clear?

Thanks all


Hi Andy,

I use the Tamiya Flat Clear + Future combo and have no problems in using it to achieve the degree of "flatness" I want.

Frosting and whitish streaking will always be issues if not well-mixed. And most of the horror stories I read can be traced to it being applied by an airbrush -- I gather that one needs to be wary of the psi settings.

This is why I handbrush the mix on to the subject, as I get to check its consistency on a mixing cup, and give it a stir as needed. No issue with brush marks as well, as Future levels itself when dry. And don't worry about the brush, just have a couple of modelling brushes for exclusive Future use -- no need to invest on those pricier artists types.

Check it out on a test piece and see if it works to your liking.

Cheers,

Tat
barkingdigger
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Posted: Sunday, March 03, 2013 - 01:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Tom

Microscale products are readily available to me so will give them a try. Any advice on thinning ratios on both the gloss and flat?

Cheers


Hi Andy, I just cut them with de-ionised water about 3:1 paint:water, but as I do it by eye it isn't precise. Too much water will make it runny and you'll need lots of coats, so experiment with the ratios on some scrap card first!

Tom
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Sunday, March 03, 2013 - 01:37 AM UTC
Tamiya sells a rattle can matt varnish which I think is excellent, and I have used it four times over 6 months without blockages occuring in the spray nozzle. The can is marked TS-80 and labelled as flat clear but does not cause the issues that the glass jar does.
Joel_W
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AUTOMODELER
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2013 - 04:12 AM UTC
Andy, Hi, and welcome back. I'm a returnee too. Took nearly a 30 year leave.

After all your various coats of base paint, when you're ready to decal, overcoat the entire model with Future. It's called Pledge now. Decal. Let dry for a full day. When you're done with all your decaling and any decal issues, you need to seal the decals so that they look like they were painted on, as well as hide any flash or edges if they were on the thick side. I do this with several coats of Pledge shot from my airbrush. Start with a light tack coat and go from there. Now apply your filters.

Once dry I seal with flat. I've used Micro Flat back in the old days. It's water based. Is OK, but not great. Doesn't hold a candle to Testors Dullcoat. Lacquer based. Use mask and or ventilation. Dries like a rock. Continue with your weathering. Final coat of Dullcoat will seal everything. Never, ever had a issue with it.

there has been one or two threads here about Tamiya's new Acrylic flat. Same issue of frosting. Go the Testors Dullcoat route, you won't be sorry.
Joel
B1ue52
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Posted: Monday, March 04, 2013 - 01:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Andy, Hi, and welcome back. I'm a returnee too. Took nearly a 30 year leave.

After all your various coats of base paint, when you're ready to decal, overcoat the entire model with Future. It's called Pledge now. Decal. Let dry for a full day. When you're done with all your decaling and any decal issues, you need to seal the decals so that they look like they were painted on, as well as hide any flash or edges if they were on the thick side. I do this with several coats of Pledge shot from my airbrush. Start with a light tack coat and go from there. Now apply your filters.

Once dry I seal with flat. I've used Micro Flat back in the old days. It's water based. Is OK, but not great. Doesn't hold a candle to Testors Dullcoat. Lacquer based. Use mask and or ventilation. Dries like a rock. Continue with your weathering. Final coat of Dullcoat will seal everything. Never, ever had a issue with it.

there has been one or two threads here about Tamiya's new Acrylic flat. Same issue of frosting. Go the Testors Dullcoat route, you won't be sorry.
Joel


Hi Joel and thanks for the input. The issue is that here in the UK, Future/Pledge has stopped being sold, at least that is what I have read. If anyone in the UK knows any different then would be good to hear back as would like to try it.

Going to give testors and micro scale a try for the flat.

Thanks
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