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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Hey, you cannon jockies pay attention!
bill_c
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 06:07 AM UTC

This review of Master Box's new US Artillery Crew set is rightfully placed in the "Military Figures" forum, but will interest you artillery guys.
white4doc
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 06:51 AM UTC
Ummm, Bill, artillery is King of the Battlefield; infantry is queen... Just teasing, great review, another one to add to the stash. SWMBO is gonna kill me...
trickymissfit
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 07:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text


This review of Master Box's new US Artillery Crew set is rightfully placed in the "Military Figures" forum, but will interest you artillery guys.



man that's one big "pig". At least an 8" howitzer. You'll more than what we see there as it would need a loading tray and at least two guys handeling it (proably four). Yet the rounds in the picture look like 155mm (powder tubes look the part as well). Be interesting to use with the Bronco 155mm Howitzer
gary
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 08:17 AM UTC
Looks like a nice set. I will probably get one.

No kidding or joking at all ... Artillery is known as the King of Battle. It is the largest killer on the battlefield. Infantry is known as the Queen of Battle based on their ability to move all over the battlefield, like the queen piece in chess.
SdAufKla
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 02:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

... No kidding or joking at all ... Artillery is known as the King of Battle. ... Infantry is known as the Queen of Battle based on their ability to move all over the battlefield, like the queen piece in chess.



Or... Red Legs in polite company and Cannon Cockers when yer down the motor pool.

Of course, us Infantry guys are called Grunts because of the noise you make when you try to stand up with your rucksack on.

But the best I ever heard was what the Tread Heads called us ... Crunchies! Allegedly from another sound the infantry makes when rolled over by a tank or APC...

Please, Bill, don't ever insult us Grunts by calling them Cannon Cockers the Queen of Battle!
retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 02:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

But the best I ever heard was what the Tread Heads called us ... Crunchies! Allegedly from another sound the infantry makes when rolled over by a tank or APC...


TotemWolf
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 02:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

... No kidding or joking at all ... Artillery is known as the King of Battle. ... Infantry is known as the Queen of Battle based on their ability to move all over the battlefield, like the queen piece in chess.



Or... Red Legs in polite company and Cannon Cockers when yer down the motor pool.

Of course, us Infantry guys are called Grunts because of the noise you make when you try to stand up with your rucksack on.

But the best I ever heard was what the Tread Heads called us ... Crunchies! Allegedly from another sound the infantry makes when rolled over by a tank or APC...

Please, Bill, don't ever insult us Grunts by calling them Cannon Cockers the Queen of Battle!



The Zoomies at Pope called us 'self loading cargo.'
Kenaicop
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 06:23 PM UTC
I believe the term is "Cannon Cockers"
bill_c
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 07:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

No kidding or joking at all ... Artillery is known as the King of Battle.


Uh, Gino, you might want to check your historical sources, including Nappy.
c5flies
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 08:24 AM UTC
Have to agree with the others Bill, but all that aside...great review:

Artillery, King of Battle

Infantry, the Queen of Battle
bill_c
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 08:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Have to agree with the others Bill, but all that aside...great review:

Artillery, King of Battle

Infantry, the Queen of Battle


Army propaganda....

Remember, I'm a civil war reenactor. In the 19th Century, artillery was the Queen. Don't ask me why or when it changed.
c5flies
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 09:45 AM UTC
Yes, I did forget that I'll keep my nose out of things I don't know about
bill_c
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 10:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes, I did forget that I'll keep my nose out of things I don't know about


LOL, queens, kings, who really knows? Who am I to quibble with a vet like Gino?

In any case, I have amended the review, since checking online I find multiple references to artillery as having both royal titles. I guess in this era of unisex soldiers, that's entirely appropriate.
MadModeler
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 10:19 AM UTC
"Armour is the Chasity belt for the infantry doesn't get raped on battlefield" ~Sgt from the Armour School CFB Gagetown



We win.
TotemWolf
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 10:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

"Armour is the Chasity belt for the infantry doesn't get raped on battlefield" ~Sgt from the Armour School CFB Gagetown



We win.


All I know is that it is far better to give than to recieve. I was on the wrong once, and that once was enough.
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 - 02:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

... No kidding or joking at all ... Artillery is known as the King of Battle. ... Infantry is known as the Queen of Battle based on their ability to move all over the battlefield, like the queen piece in chess.



Or... Red Legs in polite company and Cannon Cockers when yer down the motor pool.

Of course, us Infantry guys are called Grunts because of the noise you make when you try to stand up with your rucksack on.

But the best I ever heard was what the Tread Heads called us ... Crunchies! Allegedly from another sound the infantry makes when rolled over by a tank or APC...

Please, Bill, don't ever insult us Grunts by calling them Cannon Cockers the Queen of Battle!



The Zoomies at Pope called us 'self loading cargo.'



The Zoomies at Pope also called us"Meat bombs" and then I would remind them that there IS no such thing as a perfectly good airplane!!
As the Russian jumper said"Airbornski"
J
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 - 04:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

... No kidding or joking at all ... Artillery is known as the King of Battle. ... Infantry is known as the Queen of Battle based on their ability to move all over the battlefield, like the queen piece in chess.



Or... Red Legs in polite company and Cannon Cockers when yer down the motor pool.

Of course, us Infantry guys are called Grunts because of the noise you make when you try to stand up with your rucksack on.

But the best I ever heard was what the Tread Heads called us ... Crunchies! Allegedly from another sound the infantry makes when rolled over by a tank or APC...

Please, Bill, don't ever insult us Grunts by calling them Cannon Cockers the Queen of Battle!



food for thought:

* 85% of all KIA's on the battelfield are inflicted by arty
* airstrikes do about 10%
* infantry does almost four percent while disease and accidents make up the rest

Now to that that four percent deeper, remember that 90% of all KIA's (in that four percent) are from 100 meters or less. Of that 100 meters, about 80 percent are under 75 meters, and around 65% are under 50 meters. You can also take away a certain amount of this four percent from the use of the beehive and canister, as this will usually be lumped in with infantry KIA's. In other words if the infantry finds it with a head, it's usually added to their body count even if the torso is cut in half from the butt end of a 155mm HE round. Add to this mines. Is a Claymore mine arty or a gunshot? Is the main gun on a tank arty or a rifle? (I know it is really a rifle or a gun, and not a howitzer or mortar)
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 - 04:56 AM UTC
actually the main job of infantry is to keep the other guys off the tanks, and not to allow them to track mud ontop them.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 - 04:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Yes, I did forget that I'll keep my nose out of things I don't know about


LOL, queens, kings, who really knows? Who am I to quibble with a vet like Gino?

In any case, I have amended the review, since checking online I find multiple references to artillery as having both royal titles. I guess in this era of unisex soldiers, that's entirely appropriate.



honestly, I was taught a little differently than you guys were. Arty was always called the Infantry's queen in the chess match.
gary
TotemWolf
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 - 05:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text



food for thought:

* 85% of all KIA's on the battelfield are inflicted by arty
* airstrikes do about 10%
* infantry does almost four percent while disease and accidents make up the rest

Now to that that four percent deeper, remember that 90% of all KIA's (in that four percent) are from 100 meters or less. Of that 100 meters, about 80 percent are under 75 meters, and around 65% are under 50 meters. You can also take away a certain amount of this four percent from the use of the beehive and canister, as this will usually be lumped in with infantry KIA's. In other words if the infantry finds it with a head, it's usually added to their body count even if the torso is cut in half from the butt end of a 155mm HE round. Add to this mines. Is a Claymore mine arty or a gunshot? Is the main gun on a tank arty or a rifle? (I know it is really a rifle or a gun, and not a howitzer or mortar)
gary



Where did you get those figures?

What era was that from?
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 - 12:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



food for thought:

* 85% of all KIA's on the battelfield are inflicted by arty
* airstrikes do about 10%
* infantry does almost four percent while disease and accidents make up the rest

Now to that that four percent deeper, remember that 90% of all KIA's (in that four percent) are from 100 meters or less. Of that 100 meters, about 80 percent are under 75 meters, and around 65% are under 50 meters. You can also take away a certain amount of this four percent from the use of the beehive and canister, as this will usually be lumped in with infantry KIA's. In other words if the infantry finds it with a head, it's usually added to their body count even if the torso is cut in half from the butt end of a 155mm HE round. Add to this mines. Is a Claymore mine arty or a gunshot? Is the main gun on a tank arty or a rifle? (I know it is really a rifle or a gun, and not a howitzer or mortar)
gary



Where did you get those figures?

What era was that from?



pretty much the entire 20th century. Most military organizations keep a pretty accurate acounting on what goes on. I guy with a high KIA tally in the infantry might be showing 25 KIA's during his time in combat. But most will be well under twelve. Looking at the equipment in use will tell you that they (for the last fifty years anyway)that they are made for the 100 yard kill 98% of the time. Even airstrikes going after hard targets seldom get anything like we'd like to think they do. The other guy ain't exactly dumb. The only serious issue with airstrikes is when they are carpet bombing (or cleanig the box). You really don't know what the KIA score is because there's not much left to pick over. Arty on the other hand is the infantry's prefered method for attacking a force greater in size than they are. It's safer and easier. They simply call in a zone sweep at 20 meter burst. You can't dig a hole deep or fast enough. Plus it's a lot cheaper in the long run.

It's been said more than a few times that in Vietnam the U.S. military expended over 10,000 rounds for every KIA it inflicted. How accurate that is would be another story. You have to take into account the minigun and even crew served weapons to get a realistic look at the count. And Arty is not a tremendous amount better when you take into account H&I fire and just how many kia's you got with a six gun zone sweep (54 rounds minimum). I've seen two three and one time a six round zone sweep (must have been in deep doodo). That's 324 rounds! A good fire fight is lucky to last sixty seconds, a typical ambush last about ten to fifteen seconds on the norm. It just ain't like Audie played it in the movies. You three here and maybe eight there, but when your looking at a hundred KIA's you know you had some serious help
gary
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